Are Stem Cells the Unlock to Regenerative Medicine? | Dr Joy Kong

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Terms and conditions apply. Hiring? Do it the right way with Indeed. Really talk about it much on the show, but was, like, my kids don't really understand what I do, you know? You know, I, I, I tell them, but I don't know.

Th- I wanted them to know, I want them, I want there to be, I wanted them to be able to look back and be, like, kinda know who their dad was, you know, like, what I was all about. I mean, I talk, I mean, I talk to them constantly. I mean, it's not like I, they don't know me. But they're, they're kids now, you know? Like, they, it's impossible for them to fully understand who you are when you're 44 and they're 11, you know?

So, like, they just, they can't fully understand who you are, and I think it, it's ki- hopefully cool if they're interested or whatever, that when they get older and maybe they're in their 40s, they can look back at these shows or, you know, and be like, "Oh," like, "that's what my dad was thinking f-" you know, now I'm kinda similar age, similar part in life, and, you know, kinda compare. I think that's, that's interesting. I have two boys, so. Your show is focusing a lot on entrepreneurship, right? Yeah.

I mean, that's how it started. Mm-hmm. Um, what I'm, what I'm personally the most interested in is just overall, uh, peak performance and becoming the best versions of ourselves. And so I have people from all over the spectrum on, and, you know, it's, it's more just I like talking to interesting people or trying to help other people be better. Yeah.

And whatever that takes. Mm-hmm. And sometimes it's like, you know, like I've had Dr. Brian Keating on, and he's a doctor by, of, like, astrophysics or he goes by professor I guess now, um, 'cause too many people were giving him shit about his, uh, he's got a doctorate, he's not a doctor. Um, but, uh, but he's an astrophysicist, right?

So I had him on the show, which has nothing to do with business, but, like, his, I wanted his m- I wanted to share his mindset, you know? 'Cause he's such a, the way he thinks is very interesting, the way he breaks down problems and, you know. I mean, they're telling us that stuff is real that they, you know, can only see through a telescope, you know, X number of billion miles away. Like, how do you convince people of that, you know? That's interesting to me, so. Mm-hmm.

It's all good. Dr. Joy, I, I, I'm so incredibly happy to have you on the show. Um, uh, when someone like our mutual friend Mick Hunt refers me a guest, I get very excited 'cause I know, uh, it's someone who's, um, just gonna be incredible and share tons of knowledge. I wanna start with, like, what is the difference between, like, regenerative medicine and regular medicine?

Like, what is the call-out for regenerative that makes it different from maybe what we've experienced as medicine through going to our GP for most of our lives? Mm-hmm. Well, really regenerative medicine has been around ever since humans are around because we regenerate. And that's what we can do. So if you can tap into a way of doing medicine that coax that capability instead of fighting the body, I think that's one of the problems with conventional medicine is that it's looking at the body as a battleground, and I'm going in there, I'm waging battles, and I'm trying to fight enemies, and I'm trying to s- fight the wrong receptors, the wrong i- you know, neurotransmitters or the wrong protein.

So you're going there to wage battle. But what if you're looking at it differently? That you're now working with the body and, and tricking the body into, uh, making healthier versions of yourself, and all of a sudden that you're elevating the body instead of just focusing on fighting a particular issue, which has a whole slew of, uh, problems such as side effects of these medications and not fundamentally curing or r- really fixing the problem. So a lot of people just end up with many, many medication. 10, 20, 30, 40 medications before they die, and that's really not the best way for human health, right?

It's not... Y- if you can just fully repair, that would be ideal. Neophyte but completely believe in, in working- Mm-hmm ... towards this which is why I love having people like you on 'cause we get to, we get to learn, the audience gets to learn. Um, and you know, this really, this, this came to me, uh, and I, and I started to see something's wrong. I don't understand it, I'm not a doctor, but I could tell- Mm-hmm ... something's wrong with when it came to my mother.

So my mother has, um, uh, uh, she got some issues with her eyes and different stuff, and a lot of it was inflammation related, right? So a lot of the different things she has is inflammation related. And the doctor, you know, her doctor, and this is nothing against her doctor, right? But, but his recommendation was basically a medicine to cure or a pill to cure the inflammation, but then there needed to be another pill to deal with the side effects of that medication and then a third pill, or no, that was a, then there was a shot that she needed to take to deal with the side effects of the medication that dealt with the side effects of the anti-inflammatory. And I was like, that, I mean, a- again, not a doctor, but just logically that doesn't feel like- Logical ... like we shouldn't have to take three different things to solve one problem, right?

And, um, and, and so- My understanding of regenerative medicine is also kind of a philosophy of getting out ahead of these things before the issue actually occurs. Is that, you know- Yeah, both ways. So either get ahead or actually fixing it really effectively by- Mm ... addressing the root causes. So, yeah, if some tissue is damaged and there's low blood flow, and you can go in there, give the body something that tell the local tissue to start to repopulate, and then tell the blood vessels to start to expand and grow more blood vessels to supply the tissue, all of a sudden you're getting full healing in that area. So, you know, it's funny that you mention that case because it is so typical.

Um, it's almost like if you, you have to set a race between regenerative medicine and conven- conventional medicine, there's no race, and then it just is so evident because, um, they just keep showing how ineffective the old system is. Not to say that all medicine is, you know, all modern medicine is not good. There's a lot of amazing things and just incredible advances, but when it comes to chronic illnesses, the way it's addressing it is really misguided. That's why it's ineffective. That's why you see things like people getting on medication after medication to address previous medication, and it just, it just shows how ineffective it is.

Um, but when you use these, um, you can use cells, you can use growth factors, peptides, you can use light, you can use different supplements. All these can target how the body is gonna replenish and make new of itself. So that's why, you know, we are so excited about it, because who doesn't want to s- make new, right? Yeah. You, no, you j- and you just literally hit, like, three-quarters of the agenda items that I wanna talk about today- ... because I'm so interested in these things.

Um, uh, you know, I... One, one last story just for the audience. Um, so I have, uh, hereditary, um, high cholesterol. Mm. I've been having my cholesterol checked and had high cholesterol since I was eight years old, and, um, you know, I think right now I'm, like, at 260 or something like that.

But it's always been in that range. Now, depending on who you talk to, 260 isn't even high, but, uh, my doctor last time I went in was like, you know, I got my blood work done, and she's like, "It's been too many years. You gotta go on Lipitor." Now- Oof ... I don't wanna go on Lipitor 'cause there's a ton of side effects that come from Lipitor, and I just don't want that in my body.

And I was like, well... So I did a Google. You know, I Google doctored. I, I did, uh, Google MD, you know- ... and found that, like, basically if you don't have any plaque, there's nothing... And I'm, again, not a doctor, right?

But th- if there's no plaque, then there's nothing for the cholesterol to grab onto. And I said to her, "Well, what if... Can I go get a plaque test?" And she's like, "Well, if you must." And I was like... 'Cause w- I go, "We're on the same page that if, like, my plaque is zero, I don't need Lipitor, right?"

And she's like, "Well, technically you're right." And I'm just like... It, it, like, m- shattered my confidence in my relationship with my doctor- Ooh ... that, like, she knew that before I went on Lipitor, I should probably have this calcium test, and didn't even mention it. She was just like, "Write the Lipitor." And I was like, oh my God, like, I have to start, I have to start really considering my health more.

Like, not just relying on someone's opinion. Like, I have to start to do my own research. Um, and, and that's why, uh, all of this is a preface, uh, to get to some of these things that I wanna talk about, because I think there is so much information, and it feels to me like we are, especially now that we have, um, like RFK in, it, you know- The holidays are here, and that means it's the most wonderful time of the year to save with Rakuten. Use Rakuten to stack cash back from your favorite stores on top of holiday sales. That's savings on savings.

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All right, everyone, let's talk about drinking and driving, a decision that will change your whole world. Things will never be the same once you get a DUI, because legal fees, time in court are just the beginning. Getting into a crash is another way your world could be irreversibly changed after drinking and driving. Your vehicle may not be the only thing that gets damaged in that crash. You could face a life-altering injury or even death.

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That's absolutely gonna be... Okay. Mm-hmm. So I wanna start with one that I think is probably, um, people have probably heard the term but have literally n- might have literally no idea what it is, and that's stem cells. Like, maybe just explain- ... what stem cells are for the audience first.

Is that a status right now? You may have heard of it. Yeah. But, like- Let's break down stem cells for everybody I'm hoping that, that we've gone, uh, you know, beyond that point, uh, quite a bit, because when I first started in the field, now it's been nine years, people did ask me that all the time. The first few years, "What is a stem cell?

What are you talking about? What is it?" But now, the question usually is, "Oh my God, I heard stem cells are amazing, but I have this issue. Do you think stem cells can help me?" Mm-hmm.

So the conversation has definitely shifted. Nonetheless, it's still important to define what stem cells are- Mm-hmm ... because, um, y- you know, there's, uh, so- there's still even misconceptions about what they are. Um, some people even refer to, uh, PRP as stem cell therapy. Some people refer to, like, things like amniotic fluid. There's almost no cells.

So but first of all, what is a stem cell? Just think of you and me, how we started in this universe, this life, uh, is by forming the first stem cell, and from that stem cell, we started to divide and specialize. Different cells are going to directions. We have this magical migration and formation of the human being, right? So that, from that first cell, whatever that's in that blueprint, in the DNA in that first cell, somehow it c- is capable of directing the forming of this miraculous being, uh, this complex little universe that can walk and talk and think and, and, and interact with each other.

So that type of intelligence is really what we're trying to tap into in stem cell therapy. So from that one cell, you can form other stem cells, all the way until they become cells of a particular tissue. Mm-hmm. Let's say your heart. Your heart has heart muscle cells, but before it becomes a heart muscle cell, it was a heart mus- muscle stem cell.

So that is called the end tissue stem cell. That's the, the last step of a stem cell before it loses its stem cell status and become a working cell. So anywhere- Like it goes through, the cell goes through puberty, kinda. Like it's, uh... Exactly.

Yeah, I like that. Yeah. So anywhere along the line, th- those cells are a stem cell until you become a tissue-specific cell. So we can intercept as, y- you know, as doctors, anywhere bet- before that, and we can put the cells in the body, and they have tremendous potentials. First of all, they secrete a lot of growth factors, and they send a lot of signals.

So these exosomes are little packets that, that's one of the m- main ways that stem cells are sending out signals. So the cells are potent in triggering, um, uh, actions in neighboring cells in the system, and they also have the capabilities to divide, usually asymmetrically, because they would divide into one copy of itself and another copy that's more specialized. Mm-hmm. So now we've got a, uh, you know, more capabilities, but less potential to become everything. So they, you get narrower, and then you get deeper, right, into your function.

So but, but really a stem cell is, uh, is anywhere along the line, and there are different, uh, different aspects or different categories, uh, depending on what you're trying to, um, utilize. There's embryonic stem cells, which are very early cells, that we don't really use in this country for treatments because it's hard to control. They are a little wild. They can become tissues of any kind, and oftentimes can form tumor. Um, so even though they can become anything, but the, the, the, the, there's a potential risk.

And then there are cells that's, um, end organ cells. Let's say you wanted to grow neuron, and then you can grow a neuron in, you know, a particular progenitor cells for the neuron, but that is more difficult because they're very small in number. Sometimes you may have to induce other cells to become these cells. And now, at least at this point, FDA says now if you're trying to induce any cell to do anything or you're trying to grow them to large numbers, you are making a drug. So whether or not I agree with it is a whole other question, but that is what the FDA says.

Now you've changed the cells. Now you need to conduct clinical study. And this is one reason that things are slowed down. You can't just go ahead and, and, and try to trigger some cells to become this new group of cells, new type of cells, to tailor, uh, your treatments, um, and then... or grow them into large numbers. Now you're creating a drug.

Now it's millions and millions of dollars go into research and approval and this time and, and energy. And so that slows things down quite a bit. Um, so what we use mostly in this country and around the world right now is what's called mesenchymal stem cell, um, is the most popular type. You can also use cord blood or, or, uh, bone marrow. They contain a lot of the, um, other type of cells.

They're primitive immune cells or cells that can form the whole blood system. So you can use those as well. But mesenchymal stem cells is the most popular, um, and that, those cells actually are all along your blood vessels. Anywhere you have any blood supply, you can rest assured that these cells are hovering over it, and they're sensing what's going through your blood, and they're also keeping tabs on what's in that neighboring environment to coordinate how to help your body repair. So those cells are easy to use, and you don't...

In the US, we are using cells that have not been expanded, which means grown into large numbers in a culture medium, but overseas they do expand them, um, so they can create much bigger numbers. Um, that's a whole other subject because, uh, from what I know so far, when you grow the cells to that kind of large numbers, you are losing potency, and you're also allowing the cells to start differentiate. So they're growing their own surface receptors that will mark them as coming from somebody else because we're getting these cells from a very young source, from the umbilical cord, right? Mm-hmm. Usually that's from another person.

Unless you saved your own cord, you can use your own. Um, so you, when you start to expand them, grow them, then you're increasing the chance that, uh, the recipient is gonna recognize, "Oh my God, these cells are not from me, so let me attack," or they can attack the host. So that can cause a whole range of side effects.And stem cell treatment in general, particularly in this country, seems to be, like, a slightly contentious topic, right? There's... I, I've heard arguments, um, that you can't, sometimes you can't, like, uh, recreate the results.

I've heard ar- you know, read arguments about just the m- morality of using an umbilical cord, uh, that tends to be from, uh, some of the more religious groups. Like, there's, there seems... This doesn't... It does seem to be a lot of controversy around this. So maybe what are the...

To me, it makes sense that as we continue to evolve, deal with new environmental factors, we continue to understand how our bodies work, our bodies obviously repair themselves. We see it in real time when we're injured, right? So, like, we know these things are there. Um, w- what is the counterargument to stem cells? Why would someone push back against this type of treatment?

Or, um, or, or just outright try to deny it from even being used? Hmm. Gosh, that's a great question, and there's so much that we can go into. So first of all, there are a lot of myths. So if people happen to encounter some myths and their brain cells get stuck on those myths, that's one form of resistance.

Uh, one of the myths is that, oh, stem cells are not legal in the US. Well, that's completely wrong, because I've been doing stem cell therapy for nine years. I've taught, uh, over 1,000 doctors how to do stem cell therapy, so we're all there providing therapy, and it's absolutely legal. Well, first of all, there's nothing that says it is illegal. Um, so it's in a gray area, so no one can say that it, what you're doing is e- illegal unless you are breaking certain rules, right?

It's still not legality. The FDA did put out guidelines, um, although there's no legal, you know, really bearing, uh, because it's not, it, it's not a law. It's not enforceable. It's an agency's guideline. What do the guidelines say?

The agency, well, they can come after you if you don't follow the guideline, but still, you're not breaking the law per se, right? So but, um, the guidelines are if you use the cells for the same purpose of what the cells were doing in the body before, and then you're not manipulating and changing the cells in any way, such as, uh, using chemicals or enzymes to treat them, which can cause changes, or growing them in large, to nu- large numbers, and, and because alterations can also happen. So if you don't do that and you fulfill the same purpose, then you are providing a tissue transplantation. You're not using this as a drug. So if you're tissue transplanting, you're not really, uh, dealing with the whole drug control aspect.

You are dealing with how medicine's practiced. So you have your patients to answer to, and you have your medical board, each state's medical board to answer to if you don't do things right. So it's being governed in a whole different, uh, fro- from different entities. So when the doctor is doing, providing tissue transplant, just like, uh, a doctor... Like, I'm a, a licensed physician surgeon, so basically we're trained to be, we can do any medical practice or provide any surgeries, so that's what we're, we're, our license is for.

And when we do tissue transplant, uh, that is a procedure that we can do just like blood transfusion, just like any organ transplantation. Um, you, if there's a medical necessity and a doctor can justify from either literature or, uh, any kind of, uh, standard of practice, that there's some kind of standard established, then they can do it, right? They can justify. But frankly, a doctor can do anything they want, uh, to be honest, as long as they're not causing harm. Let's say a doctor believes that there's some kind, something in the dirt is really, really good, and the doctor says, "I think you should put this in the water and drink it."

And the doctor can do that, as long as you're not causing harm. So, so that's the scope of practice. So that's first myth, is that people think it's not legal, and it's absolutely legal. Why do we have this myth? Well, um, there are some vested interest in people who want stem cell therapy to be illegal in the US- Mm-hmm ... so everybody can go across the border, go to Panama, Costa Rica, you know, The Bahamas, Mexico, right?

They would love for people to think that their only option is by taking a plane to those places. Um, so that's one myth. Um, an- Joy, do you also... Sorry to interrupt you, but, uh, doctor, do, do you think, um, how much of this is also, like, the scenarios that we talked about at the very beginning, um, where there's so much, seemingly so much more money to be made in stacking prescriptions on prescriptions on prescriptions, and if there's a preventative or regenerative medicine that someone can start to use that keeps them from actually experiencing any of those issues later, where these drug companies make all their money... You know what I mean?

I mean, we know, we've seen in, in RFK and, a- and started to already uncover some of this, where these drug companies are petitioning and in many cases, you know, doing in-kind trade with the FDA in order to block certain therapies and certain types of drugs because they can, they can actually limit the need for all of these stacks of drugs that they're making billions on. I mean, is that, is that part of it at all? Is there internal push and internal, uh... Not to go too down the conspiracy theory role, although conspiracy theories are my favorite. Um, you know- ... is there any of that happening inside the states as well?

Um, I wish I could say no, but from what I have heard, I have learned, is that there's really no... Th- th- there's, there's no intention- On the FDA's part to really push or f- fully accept or even wanting, uh, these therapies to be approved. So I, I have heard, um, certain, you know, direct evidence that point toward the fact that th- uh, uh, this agency really is not excited about pushing this forward. Mm. Um, it may say so.

It may say that we want you to do studies, to do this and that, but what I've seen with companies is that they're given the runaround, and they are asked to do things, you know, that, uh, uh, that maybe they think that certain things were not done correctly, then they have to redo certain things, and they go around and round, and some company run out of money, uh, go bankrupt, and, um, and still, even very powerful company that I, I know, um, has not been able to achieve a, any kind of approval. So- Yeah ... there's definitely institutional resistance. It's the red tape roadblock, yeah. So what... It's like, yeah, you can do this, Dr.

Joy, but here's 17 hoops you need to jump through, and- Yeah ... you know, and if you- We support you. We want you to do this, but- ... you just do this first. And then somehow I just couldn't finish doing those things. Um, all right. So, uh, some people think it's illegal.

Um, uh, what, what are, what are some of the other myths that people are running into? Uh, people think, "Oh, you're, are you killing babies?" Mm-hmm. Um, well, I don't know anybody that's killing babies in the United States. Maybe in other countries, uh, especially if they're doing fetal stem cell treatments, such as Ukraine.

I've definitely h- definitely abortion will, will be involved, and there, it involves a destruction of a fetus, but that's not legal in this country, so no babies killed. And embryonic stem cells are not used for clinical use. You can't give it to people as treatment. You can do it as research, but you can't give it to any humans. So the cells we use either is from a person's own, like your own bone marrow, your own fat.

We can get from your dental pulp. Like, there are different sources. Menstrual blood. But, um, more and more popular, and because it's, it's, it's more powerful, is the early burst tissue derived stem cells, such as from the umbilical cord. So the umbilical cord is obtained only after a healthy baby is born, right?

What do you do with the cord usually in the past? You cut the cord, and you toss in the trash. Now we know, no, don't toss it. There's so much incredible things in this that we can use it to help people repair and heal. So that's, that's another myth, that people think that anyone's harmed by getting stem cell therapy.

I think partially was because, uh, years back, George W. Bush banned embryonic stem cell, um... It's, uh, he didn't ban the research. He just banned federal funding that supports more embryo destruction, so he just didn't want more, you know, lives, so he- Was that like an anti-abortion play? Was that kind of play...

Is that what that- Yes ... like, kind of a- Exactly ... a side product? Yeah. So that's the ideological, there's a little bit of ideological, ideological battle going on in the US. Um, so, so he passed a law banning federal funding for a stem cell, um, uh, new destruction of a, of an embryo. But people who, or labs who a- already have these embryonic stem cell lines that you, you know, you just keep using the same line to do research, that's not banned.

So they can still research, but still they can't give it to humans for just clinical use. Um, so that's another... People get confused- Wh- what's the thought process there? Like, why, if they're able to do the research and they find out that something could actually help people, why, why... Is it, again- Well, partially because you need- ... is that just ideological and political, or?

So that's definitely a highly manipulated process, right? You're getting cells from the embryonic, uh, uh, basically day five to seven when the fetus is forming, the embryo's forming. There's a, a ball of cells, and inside the ball there are certain, you know, straggling, these, these cells. They, they're called inner cell mass, and you can grab any cell from that inner cell mass, and you can form a full human. So that's the, that's the embryonic stem cell that they are, they're, they're getting.

So you can get that from day five to seven after fertilization. Okay. Um, the problem is that they are still difficult to control, that they can cause what's called teratoma, which is a uncontrolled growth of tumor. It could be all kinds of cells, uh, from like hair, teeth, bone. They're all- Hm ... clustered together.

So there are other countries who are doing embryonic stem cell treatment, just not in the US. However, uh, people have heard horror stories of how a person grow a tumor, and a lot of time they grow a tumor on the back. That's very commonplace. So all of a sudden they grow a tumor on their spine, and there have been people who have been paralyzed because of this. So there's a little bit of, uh, well, there's high risk that we can't control these cells, that they can just all of a sudden start to form tumor cells.

So that's one reason it's not allowed in the US, besides the ideological, you know, concerns of- Yeah ... destroying of an embryo. Yeah. Yeah, seven days is pretty early, um, to, to do that kind of thing. I was, I was thinking more like, you know, living in New York, and I don't mean this to be political, but New York loves abortions, and all these babies are going somewhere. Exactly.

You know, I would rather, if we're gonna... I, I'm obviously, I swing a little more conservative, but, uh, if we're gonna, if we're gonna allow for all this, you know, part of me is like, you know, maybe at least we could use them for good and help the people that are still here. Um, but if it's that early, that, that's really early, and plus it, it seems to me like that's pretty scary. But what you're saying is that, okay, so that, that might be the more scary side that are used as scare tactics- Yeah ... going all the way to embryonic, but something like umbilical cord, much more stable, much more... We, we, uh, can use it for research- Yeah ... and we can actually use it for products.Umbilical cord is almost the best of both worlds because it contains some of the early markers as the embryonic stem cell, which really, uh, shows that they are more flexible, they've got more potentials.

They're just in a more primitive state. And then they're so down the stream because they are all the way, come, have all the way down to the formation of the baby. So they have also evolved to the point where they are not gonna go crazy, go haywire. Mm-hmm. So, so these cells were trapped when the embryo was forming, and then they're, uh, retaining some of the characteristics of the early embryo, but, but also they just lost some of the crazy potentials.

Yeah. Awesome. So why would, why would someone want... Like, what's a use case for stem cells? For, for someone who's listening and, you know, like what, what, what are some of the things that we use them for today that, you know, people can, can think about in their own life or, uh, as a potential treatment versus maybe again going down this pharmaceutical rabbit hole, which I'm obviously- Yeah ... anti when it comes to.

The exciting thing is, is that the, the range has just kept, it keeps expanding- Mm ... either from research, published research or from anecdotal clinical, uh, practice. So even if you just look at research, it's extremely active all around the world. Um, there's so many conditions. You know, I know this because I've read almost all of them, all these articles, because I teach a course, uh, through the academy I founded called M- American Academy of Integrative Cell Therapy. So I train all these doctors, and I train them through evidence.

I don't train them through my philosophy, right? This is all about evidence. Let's see what we have s- found out th- through rigorous research. So there are evidence of every organ systems, just from head to toe, right? From brain diseases, uh, as early as autism, uh, you know, cer- cerebral palsy, as late as Alzheimer's, or later, you know, other neurological, neurodegenerative conditions.

And we have cardiac issues, heart, lung, liver, um, reproductive systems, and all kinds of musculoskeletal issues, all kinds of systemic conditions like autoimmune issues or cancer. I mean, you name it, there's tremendous amount of evidence. And then every day, the doctors that I work with and, and me, we keep accumulating new evidence. W- Basically, we're the, in the, in the frontier. We're right in the front line, and we started, we start to see things that have never been seen before, right?

So a few examples, even just things I've seen, I mean, I couldn't believe. There are a few cases I just couldn't believe. One of them was a patient that was, uh, had a, uh, uh... When he was nine years old, he got a brain surgery, uh, uh, from, because of a brain tumor. But, uh, the, the surgery went, it didn't go very well.

There was a problem, so optic nerve was, was damaged. So he couldn't see from that one eye for 44 years- Mm ... until he got stem cell therapy from us. He's starting to see in that one eye. So this is something that, like, I would have never... If I had done a consultation with the patient, I would have just said, "You know, I, I doubt this is gonna help your vision."

You know, I, I would, I would not anticipate. I mean, I, I just, I wouldn't, I would never give false hopes. But the fact that the person's starting to see, it just, it's, it is so inspiring of what these cells are capable of. And one of my earliest patient was a liver cirrhosis patient. He didn't qualify for a liver transplant because he was IV drug user.

So he was in hospice, and he was, had almost no strength to talk, and is extremely emaciated with a big belly, the ascites. And I give him one treatment, and I couldn't believe it as I found out later, 'cause I was planning on doing more, but he didn't show up. But he got recovered so fast that even on the way, on his drive from Los Angeles to, to Sacramento, within those four or five hours, his, the, the, the swelling had gone down halfway. It was just, I, I couldn't believe it. And then within, within, within a few weeks was walking around talking like a normal person.

And then within a couple of months when he went back to his primary care, w- well, his liver specialist, and his liver test actually was normal. So that one was absolutely incredible, and it could be an outlier. However, show me a conventional medicine, any medi- medicine you have, that can create this. You know, I will be in shock. We don't have anything like this.

So there are outliers of extraordinary outcomes, and there are people whose outcome is not as extraordinary, and then vast majority is in between. Um, people are getting- The holidays are here, and that means it's the most wonderful time of the year to save with Rakuten. Use Rakuten to stack cash back from your favorite stores on top of holiday sales. That's savings on savings. With Rakuten, you can get cash back on gifts for everyone on your list, from toys for the kids to kitchen gear for the person who loves to cook, to electronics for everyone.

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Join for free today and get a new member bonus after minimum qualifying purchases. Just go to Rakuten.com, download the app, or install the browser extension. That's R-A-K-U-T-E-N. Terms and conditions apply... incredible benefits from previously, uh, with no medications, no medical treatment was making a difference. So it may take several sessions, so it's not a miraculous thing, but still, we are able to create changes that the conventional medicine really didn't have tools to create.

And sort of in a very non-medical way, essentially, like, taking the, the, uh, individual with the optic nerve, essentially the, the stem cells are, are helping to, to regrow the damaged tissue associated with, say, like, the optic nerve or something? Is that, is that the idea, or- Yeah ... like- From what we give him, right? We're not giving him neural progenitor cells. We're not injecting right into the area, and a lot of times we don't have to because of how these cells work. So how I consult with patients is really by talking about how the cells work, and to see if that can dovetail their condition.

So something like optic, optic nerve damage, so there's tissue death and damage. Maybe it's not dead, maybe just severely damaged, but still the person could not see. Um, there could be a local inflammatory, uh, mechanism going on, that there's so much inflammation that it's diseased, right? There's just a, there's- Mm-hmm ... a blockage of signaling. So w- how do the stem cells work?

So the mesenchymal stem cells I'm talking about, that's one of the main, uh, uh, main players in regenerative medicine. The mechanism is, one, is highly anti-inflammatory. So think about chronic illnesses and how- Mm-hmm ... many of these have inflammation as part of the mechanism. So if you can c- can calm the inflammation, now you're allowing the body to go to the other way of existing, which is to regenerate. Because in- And, Dr.

Joy, I, I just want to stop for a second and have you touch on this. This is something that I have learned over the years, um, because I had such bad tissue damage in my right elbow from playing college baseball and throwing improperly for so long that f- there was a period of time where, like, I, I don't know if you can see, the people watching on YouTube, this is what my right arm looked like. Now, now I can extend it all the way, but there, for a period of time, this was as far as I could extend my right arm because of how much tissue damage and inflammation was going on in my elbow. And I had doctors go, "Oh, that just happens to baseball players," and blah, blah, blah, and you use your elbow, and all this kind of stuff. And then I finally found a physical therapist who was, who, like, gave me this intense download on inflammation, and I had no idea.

Like, I don't know, a regular person, you hear the term, I mean, today you might hear it more, but this is 15 years ago, and I, I just didn't reali- I mean, I simply... I did two thi- one, I broke down the, some of the scar tissue with a, whatever, like a roller. But all I really did was change my diet to a highly anti-inflammatory diet, and my arm just started to creep down, down, down, and now I pretty much eat a, an anti-inflammatory diet all the time, as much as I can, although I do occasionally like a cocktail. Um, and now I have full range of motion, just, just from changing my diet, inflammation. And, and, and I'm, I, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I just, I, I think what you're saying is so incredibly important, this idea of the reduction of inflammation in our day-to-day lives, and I, I guess my question to you is, like, is there a, is there, it...

Well, do you think stem cell therapy will ever be a, a just, um, oh, I d- I'm losing the right word right now, because I just went off on that story, but like a- Like a day-to-day, like- Like a day-to-day, yeah ... part- A day-to-day, just preventative ... absolutely. Yeah. That's where we're going. Okay. That's where we, we are.

We, we'll be there. Um, I'm, we'll be there in our lifetime, and w- you know, it, I, hopefully within 10, 15 years. I'm, I'm really hoping. It, it really depends on the regulatory atmosphere and how... It, it just, yeah, that has a lot to do with how fast we can get there.

So, um, and, w- your example of your, your, your, your arm is just so beautiful, because you are, you were doing regenerative medicine, right? Through dietary approach. Because calming the inflammation, you're a- a- addressing this through a systemic, uh, method. Mm. And that's one of the mainstays of how I use stem cells to help people, is through the systemic route.

Mm. Because your, the, your, your arm, the tissue damage is, the reason it's chronic is because your body somehow could not repair it. Mm. Because acute injury, yes, you're gonna be inflamed, you're gonna be, you know, in pain. But if your body is doing its job, cells should get right over there, take away the bad cells, calm the inflammation, now you can start regenerating, regenerating.

And why couldn't you? It's because your body was in a, in this stuck position- Mm ... is in this place of inflammation that it can't move on from. N- and now, when you change, shift your diet, all of a sudden you're allowing all the anti-inflammatory signals to come through- Mm ... and now you can heal. So that's what we're doing with stem cell therapy as well. One of the main reasons stem cells work so well is that it calms the inflammation.

Mm. Inflammation is hand-in-hand with aging. As we age, it doesn't matter how healthy you are, your inflammation level is getting higher and higher, as evidenced by inflammatory markers. You're just gonna get higher markers. It doesn't matter if you're a perfectly healthy, vibrant, older person.

So inflammation is closely related to aging, and aging is closely related with disease. It's the most predictive factor of chronic illness, including cancer. So if we can calm the inflammation, we can actually slow down the aging decline. So that, that's one of the powerful methods. And the other thing that stem cell therapy worked really well on is immune regulation.

So s- m- that's kind of hand-in-hand with the inflammation. So- Mm ... if you're stuck in inflammation, that means your immune system is, you know, more shifted toward inflammatory, uh, re- response. But th- there's a counter response that your system just get lower and lower, uh, in their capability of evoking. So- When you are using stem cells, it can shift your body, get you out of that inflammatory, uh, stickiness, and now you can move on to, to regeneration. That's why it's been extremely powerful in autoimmune diseases.

It's like one of the places it just shines. If you have autoimmune, you have lupus, uh, rheumatoid arthritis, psoriasis, and, and all kinds of odd, you know, autoimmune disease. I, uh, I believe they're calling the same diseases by over 120 names, so that, uh, uh, make them feel better, make the doctors feel better. "I know exactly. I know the organ.

I know the problem of the which organ and, and, and this is autoimmune." But not realizing that it's the same disease, it just pops up in different places, so which means the repair, the, the cure, or the, the, you know, the method of addressing it could be just one. Yeah. If you just reduce the inflammation and shift your immune system, it doesn't matter what you have, and everything can get better. So that's the, the immune regulation.

And besides that, it has all kinds of cool stuff that, uh, it can do, like breaking down scar tissue. I've seen that in liver cirrhosis- Mm-hmm ... in, in lung fibrosis, right, COPD, and other lung damages. In Peyronie's, which is a abnormal curvature of the penis because of- Mm ... inflammatory plaques, it's really easy to, to to help. One injection, it's straightened right up. And so the breaking down of scar tissue, uh, is something that is exciting because conventional medicine has nothing for it.

Yeah. So, and then- I have heard that women like a little curve, but, you know, I'm just saying- ... I don't wanna, don't wanna knock all, you know, we don't wanna knock all that. Is that right? So I I couldn't help myself.

Oh my God. Um, so, um, yeah, I still have a, like, 11-year-old sense of humor. Um- Okay, so I wanna rapid fire some things at you and kind of just get your quick thoughts on a couple, you know, kind of moving. We spent a lot of time on stem cells, which I really appreciate. Mm-hmm.

I also, um, whether we do it with everyone listening or when we go, I wanna figure out what, like, dark web website I can go to to order some, like, you know, some- something I can start to test with. Uh, I love testing stuff. Um, okay, so I, I'm gonna throw, like, a few different... I'm gonna either maybe misclassify, maybe not, but, but just, uh, regenerative-type medicines or, or that I've seen classified as regenerative and just get your feedback on some of these. Mm-hmm.

Um, the first, and we'll, we'll start, we'll start light and maybe move a little heavier, like, uh, uh, infrared therapy/sauna heat therapy as a way to help your body regenerate. Yeah, I, uh, I don't know how much evidence, uh, uh, but definitely infrared sauna, we know light is highly, um, uh, you know, very good for cells, cellular health, and for detoxification. Of course, that's gonna enhance the health of your cells. I think we just, at- we're at the beginning of understanding what light can do. Mm.

I do use light in our stem cell treatment, actually. Mm. I use, uh, laser light of different, uh, colors and wavelengths, so red, uh, green, and violet, so three different colors. Those will target different mitochondrial enzymes, and that elevates the mitochondrial function. Of course, that is the powerhouse for the cells, and that will elevate your body's, you know, function period.

Gotcha. So, um, and also, we, I can direct the cells to particular locations if I use the laser to target. But, um, yeah, to, to answer your question, I love infrared sauna, and I think light therapy is a really, really powerful adjunct. I, I think- Yeah ... we're just at the beginning of understanding how much of light beings we are. Yeah.

I, I, I think I, I've heard, I have a... I've done it a few times. Um, uh, and, but I have a few buddies who've, like, made it part of their routine, uh, and they, they swear by it. I mean, they're like, "Oh my gosh, my skin, the way I feel, it's, uh, incredible." But th- that's good to know.

Okay. Um, what about NAD? Uh, talking about mitochondrial energy, like, I've heard a lot of people, um... I take a NAD powder that my, uh, a friend who is very into, uh, optimization, um, uh, got me turned on to. And he said, "Hey, this is, like, the food for our mitochondria.

It helps our mitochondria work. It brings back cells that maybe, you know, gives them more energy. They, uh, they perform for longer," et cetera. Um, you know, where does that play a mix in this? Is that, is that part of something people should be considering?

Yeah, it's very popular. Um, I think, uh, I've heard people getting tremendous results and, uh, feeling great and doing great. Uh, I, I just don't notice a big difference in me when I do it, uh, and it's very uncomfortable. But, um, there are supplements you can also take to elevate your NAD level, so I think those are a, a good idea. Um, there's still some controversies out there, you know, how much, uh, you know, certain- Absorption rates- ... things can will help ... and that kind of stuff.

Yeah. Yeah. But I think in general, it, it could be helpful, but it's, it's still individualized. Some people don't notice any benefit, but some people really swear by it. Yeah.

I, I have... Uh, the people who swear by it, I found, are the ones who can tolerate the injections and the, uh, or, or the drips and sit there for two hours and get an NAD drip. Um, but it's also, I think to your point, and just, you know, for the audience, my experience has been it's very expensive for the lack of real change that you seemingly feel, right? Like- You know what I mean? Like, when you're talking, like, bang for the buck, um, like you said, it, it seems nominal versus what you have to pay to, to experience it, where, you know- I think you, I think there's other ways.

Um, a- another one and then, uh, I, I, I'm finishing with peptides 'cause that's the one I'm actually very interested in, but, but I've seen this everywhere and I actually saw it on your channel. I have not had a chance to watch a video yet. Methylene blue. Mm. I've had multiple people...

Now, again, not a doctor, but I've had mult- 'cause I have, 'cause I do the podcast, people seemingly think I know what I'm talking about. Just so everyone's listening, I don't. That's why I bring guests on like Dr. Joy. Yeah.

Um, but I've had people reach out to me about methylene blue and just said, "What's this all about?" I literally have no idea. What is methylene blue? Is this something that helps in this kind of regenitive frame, or is it another kind of fly-by-night thing that you see on Instagram and TikTok? Well, methylene blue has had a history of, uh, over 140 years.

So it was, uh, developed as a dye, you know, to dye jeans. Um, but then apparently people who were working in these, in these factories that were, you know, had their hands in these dyes, they never got sick in, in one of the plagues. That's how they realized that there's a lot of antimicrobial properties. Oh. And so they were the first antimalarial drug developed.

Um, but later on they realized, oh, it can help with mental issues. So people with, uh, in asylums. Uh, they, they started giving psychotic patients, uh, these methylene blue and found out they were, they were helpful. And, um, yeah. And then it was, later on was used to, um, you know, help you, um, fight, uh, uh, carbon monoxide, uh, poisoning, because it can, it can help, uh, take the, uh, uh, molecule, the damaging molecule off the, the oxygen, I mean, off the, the red blood cells.

Mm. But then they found out that they were, uh, you were able, people were able to use it for traumatic brain injury. So emergency rooms started to give IV infusions of methylene blue, uh, for people who have traumatic brain injury. And that's, I think the, the popularity started to happen, I wonder if it has to do with COVID, when so many people have brain fog- Man ... and low energy, and people are searching for things that can really reverse that. And because what they found out is that it's a potent mitochondria enhancer.

So now people with brain fog, fatigue, and, and all k- you know, all kinds of conditions are able to get relief, and it's really great for brain health. So that's how it was, it became, I think, popular. And of course, RFK was taking it and, and- Yeah. No, that's really interesting 'cause the guy that reached out to me is actually, um, has long, or long COVID or is dealing with the ramifications of long COVID, and he, ever since he got COVID, you know, he's had the brain fog and the lack of energy and some of the symptoms that have come. Um, you know, I always, part of me wants to be like, "Dude, you're 40-something years old.

We all have, we're all not as sharp as we were in our 20s." But, um, but no, he, uh, it was, that's interesting. So that, that's really interesting that came out of COVID. Um, I know we're, we're, we're running out of time, but I, I have to ask you about, um, and we, we probably don't have enough time to dig into, uh, deeper into these, but it gives me a reason to have you back. Um, peptides- Mm-hmm ... right?

Um, uh, I'm currently taking semorin, um, which, uh, my, I'm, I'm working with a woman who does hormone optimization. Uh, I had a really... About a year ago, I got, I, I, like, ran into a brick wall. Not literally, figuratively. Um, live in New York.

I deal with the New York winters for 44 years. I'm 44 years old. I've de- I've dealt with it my entire life. I understand there's, you know, vitamin D and everyone kind of has a drop. You don't see the sun for about four months.

Um, but man, it was different. And I went and got my testosterone tested, and I was at a 70. So 7th percentile of men my age. Um- Oh my goodness ... which was, which was bad, which was odd. I mean, I work out, I eat well, I, you know, whatever.

Um, but I was way off. Way off, right? Like, no sex drive. I was, it took me every ounce of energy I had to get to the gym, terrible workouts, um, really bad moods, whatever. And, um, so we did a little bit of, uh, uh, testosterone stuff and kind of got that straightened out and figured out what that was and, and some of that may have been stress-related, but, um, one of the things that she put me on was semorin.

And, uh, and then that got me kind of researching more and learning more about what peptides can do. And so just with the time we have remaining, I'd love for you to finish a little bit, maybe just, just tell a little bit about how peptides work and if they work in conjunction with stem cells and how we should be considering these things. Yeah, peptides is really nature's way of making, getting things done, you know? Yeah. Uh, in our body we have, uh, over, uh, 300,000 different kinds of peptides.

I mean, it literally is a sea of peptides that's doing the work. Um, so we've only discovered, I think, about 70,000 of them. Uh, no, about, about seven... No, 7,000 of them. And, um, and we are only using maybe around 100, you know, uh, or so.

So but it's still an expanding field. There's new things coming out, um, new discoveries. The beauty about peptides is that they're so specific. You can target specific organs, specific functions, because it's like, it's like all these keys, right- Mm-hmm ... are floating around in your body, and they're all searching for the lock. And so if you can replenish the keys, because a lot of times as we age, we may have lost certain keys, and all of a sudden you can't unlock, unlock functions, uh, or you have a really short supply of it.

You just can't get enough of the job done. So now we can replenish it. Now we can unlock that function. Mm. That function can be immune function.

So you can target by enhancing your thyroid function. Uh, I mean, thymus. So, like, the T alpha one, the thymus beta four, uh, also called TB500. You can-I'm here on the job site with Dale, who's a framing contractor. Hey, good morning.

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