[Audio Exclusive] Keep Hustling Podcast

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Terms apply. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the show. Today we have a special audio exclusive episode. This is a, a podcast that I was on. A good friend of mine, Aaron Gordon, has The Keep Hustling Podcast, which first I wanna highly recommend you go subscribe to.

He has some incredible guests. He's asking incredible questions and, uh, I love the format. I love what he's doing. But this was a very deep and interesting conversation, and we went in some places that I had never gone before on this podcast and I wanted to do two things. I wanted to, one, share it with you guys, uh, so that, you know, just to put this content in front of you.

I thought that a lot came out of it, and Aaron got me talking about some things that I, you know, had never really gone into, so I wanted to share that with you. And two, I wanted to expose you to Aaron's podcast, The Keep Hustling Podcast. So two things. I hope you enjoy this episode. I think you will.

Uh, and number two, go subscribe to Aaron's podcast if you're not subscribed because it's a wonderful podcast. He's doing wonderful work, and he has some incredible guests on that show. So with that, let's get on to, uh, this interview that I did with Aaron Gordon on The Keep Hustling Podcast. Welcome to Keep Hustling with my guest, Ryan Hanley. Thank you, Ryan, for being on the show.

Dude, it is my pleasure to be here. It is great to have you. A lot of people probably don't know that you and I are from the same state, even though we're from different parts of it, I think. And so for that, why don't we jump right into it? What do we need to know?

Anyone who checks the show notes or does some research on you or hits just a quick l- Google of Ryan Hanley will see the amazing path that you've taken, the interesting path that you've taken, and the success that you've achieved, and many people will admire that. But the question is: where did it all start? Mm. What do we need to know about how Ryan Hanley was brought up that led him to be the beast that he is today? Yeah.

Um, so I've, I've had to think about this a lot lately. I don't know why. Um, you know, the last few months have been tough for a bunch of different reasons. Uh, nothing like, nothing terrible, terrible, but just, you know, things, challenges, things that make you think about things. Um, and I, you know, I came from nothing.

Like, outside of being white, I had zero advantages. You know what I mean? Like, and look, as a white guy from the North, I would be a, an idiot to not say that, look, there are certain advantages to being a white guy. I believe that. Um, you know, and I'm tall.

That helps a little bit, I guess. Taking two things out- Very tall. For the listeners, very tall. Very tall. Very tall.

Yeah, very tall. I'm 6'4". When you, when you meet him in the airport, you're s- it's scary. Yeah. So, so okay, so let's say I have those two advantages.

Um, I was-- my parents were divorced when I was six. W- uh, I was raised in a camp on a lake that when we first moved in didn't have heat. Uh, we used space heaters. Um, my dad was a mechanic on the railroad. My mom was a receptionist.

Um, so we weren't, like, hungry, but we didn't have anything. Uh, I was raised in a town of 900 with, which had the third most polluted body of water in the state of New York in it. People used to say you could leave your doors open there because the criminals lived in that town. They didn't steal from that town. Um, and everything about it was bad.

It was, uh, every male was an alcoholic, uh, e- you know, or a pothead or worse, or just a deadbeat, um, surrounded by, you know, people who lived in trailers who had it even worse than those of us who lived in homes. You know what I mean? So, like, it was not a great place to grow up. Uh, my, you know, my only other blessing, I guess, than the ones that I already described is that while my parents were dysfunctional, uh, to a certain extent, I got a tremendous amount of love. So they were both individually very good parents.

So I did have that going for me despite, you know... Like, look, like, my dad went to jail three times while I was being raised, three different times. My junior, senior year of high school and freshman year of college, I didn't see my dad once 'cause he was in jail. So, like, going to college, the day I came home and said to my mom, uh, "Hey, I think I'm gonna go to college," her response was, "Oh, that's great." There was no expectation, no conversation.

It was like if I didn't go, she would've been happy. I mean, I think she thought I might 'cause I had talked about it, but, like- If I didn't, whatever, you know? I've had jobs since I was 12 years old. If I wanted money, like I used to go around and collect bottles at 4:30 in the morning on Thursdays at 10 years old, like out of people's garbage cans so that I could return them for the five cent refund and make money. That's like how I made money at 10, 'cause I like needed money.

Like I didn't have any money. So, you know, I have scraped and clawed outside-- Again, blessed that both my parents and despite some of the things that, issues my dad has had, he was a als- in between the moments where he wasn't there, he was a tremendous father and he was very loving. He just had issues with alcohol. So like, you know, I was blessed in that I had love, but outside of those things I have scraped, clawed, fought for absolutely everything that I have. So I, there's very little, you know, and this is one of the reasons that I don't operate well in big bureaucracies, is that there's a fear in bureaucracies of like your level is gonna be impacted or, and I could just give a fuck.

I am exactly who I am. You cannot hurt me. You know, I'm not David Goggins. I'm not running 100-mile races, but like you can't hurt me. I have been fired for the most ridiculous reasons.

I have had, you know, like, you know, when I got divorced, I got kicked out of my house on my way to the most important business decision of my life, out of left field, never even had a conversation about it. Like, I've just had so many things happen in my life to me like that, you know, I think, and, and I, and I don't mean this to sound egotistical, but I just h- it's real, and the reason I can say this with confidence is 'cause I've done so much work. Like, what could you fucking do to me? You know, me personally. You come after my kids, you hurt my kids, I'm gonna get murderous and that could be a real impact to me.

But what could you do to me? I don't know that outside of like, you know, someone doing something, like I said, murderous, I, you, you can't do anything. Fire me. Okay. Look, the head of the big I, when I got fired from Trusted Choice, literally called all the speaking gigs that I had booked and got me kicked out of those speaking gigs.

So I've literally been canceled inside the industry. I, you know what I mean? Like the, there, these are things that happened. Like they sound like crazy stories, but like, you know, just everything from just scraping and clawing and scratching and making it through college. Like I, I got, I lost my f- my, my financial aid in college after my freshman year because of a accounting issue and didn't go to University of Rochester for a semester and had to literally somehow, you know, through different clubs and connections, get ahold of the dean.

I got this Dean Burgett, who I, who has unfortunately passed away before I ever got to meet him in person. But this guy literally turned my life around because I told him my story and he got me back into Rochester and, and then, you know, I came out with debt because obviously I was paying for it myself and just, dude, it's, it's been everything that I've accomplished or not is me. So like I look at the world exactly as it is. If something happens that I don't like, I may get mad or frustrated or even depressed for a moment, but then I take it on and I say to myself, "What could I have done better? How could I change that?

And how do I make sure this doesn't happen again?" And I fucking move forward. And like that doesn't work in some organizations and in others it does. And I've had tremendous amounts of success and I've had it all taken away from me and, um, over and over and over again. And, um, there's just nothing you can do to me.

Fire me, okay. I'm just gonna come back. I'm not gonna stop. So like there's a million things in there. I'm happy to answer any questions about it.

But like, um, you know, this, this through line for me has just been getting my absolute balls kicked in over and over and over and over again, and I just don't stop. I just keep coming. I just keep coming back. I'm just never- Keep hustling ... gonna stop. You know?

First of all, if there's any story that I've heard doing this or not doing this for that matter, that is the living embodiment of keep hustling, it's, it's that. I didn't even know most of those details, so thank you first of all for sharing that as we... I, I'm gonna, I'm gonna press you on a couple of those things if that's okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Go ahead. Uh, 'cause that's what this is about. Yep. But keep hustling is keep hustling. I, you, you mentioned a couple of times the value that your parents being loving had to you.

Yeah. And I, I have to believe that that m- made you believe that you would amount to something. Yeah. It, um, so my honest opinion is that if you have loving parents, it doesn't matter what shithole environment you come from, you have a chance. If your parents don't love you and don't show love to you, y- it's very, very, very difficult.

Even, even if you come from everything, even if you're given keys to the kingdom, if your parents can't express love to you, you will be a fuckup and you will have problems. It doesn't mean you can't deal with it, but you're gonna have problems. I'm blessed that I know at the end of the day, no matter what I do, no matter what, if how many times I get fired, no matter what stupid shit I say, do, date this woman, marry this woman for an extended period of time, which everyone couldn't stand. Uh, you know, no matter what the fuck happens, they're there. They love me.

You know what I mean? And that, that, that goes a very long way. It gives you a base to say like, "Okay, you know, I'm gonna fall flat on my face again. You know what? And even if my mom doesn't have two nickels to rub together, she's gonna give me, you know, the one that she does have to help me get back on my feet."

Now that hasn't happened, nor would I ever ask her for that 'cause, you know, whatever. I'm just not gonna do that to her. I mean, someday I wanna I wanna buy her a house outside of the fucking town that I raised, that I was raised in, 'cause she still lives in the house that I was, that I was raised in. And like, I wanna get her out of there and, and get her, you know, either closer to my kids or, you know, just, I don't know, someplace a little nicer. But, um, you know, I think that that has given me a foundation to, to, to do all the things that I've done.

You know, like, um, I've never really found that connection with, uh, a woman. You know, even my wife who, who I was with for 13 years, she's a good person and, you know, I make jokes, but like, you know, she, she's, she's a good person, she's a good mom. But we were more like business partners in life, you know what I mean? We were very good business partners. Like, we did a very good job of running a house and raising children, but we, there was never, like, a tremendous amount of love between us.

I didn't really realize that until late, you know, the last few years and, you know, kind of, I've done a lot more work. I got really good advice about five years ago, uh, that I've held true to. Um, a mentor of mine said, "Whether you think you have problems or not, for the, for the rest of your life, find a counselor or a therapist and go see them every other week and just consider it a life expense. Doesn't matter what's going on, doesn't matter if you think you need it or you don't, every other week for the rest of your life, go talk to somebody who isn't, who, who is a professional." Who's outside.

And I've done that for five years now. One of the best decisions I ever made. It's allowed me to grow, to talk through things, to, to, to be able to handle getting divorced, to be able to handle getting fired, getting multiple times, you know, to getting, you know, all these things that have happened. You know, launching Rogue and for the first five months not selling a policy and think, you know, watching $50,000 go up in smoke and feeling like, "Oh my God, I just took my shot and, and, and outside of my control, I'm not even gonna have a chance to prove that this thing works." Like, you know, dealing with all those things, you know, going and seeing that person was a big part of it.

Um, reading, you know. But I think you fall back on the fact that like, you know, I may not have, outside of my kids and probably my mom and my dad, I don't know that I've experienced like real love-love, you know? But I, um, having that alone, man, you just need one person that loves you and everything's gonna be okay, in my opinion. And I, and I do, as I get older, you know, that word, when you're younger, you know, love, I think it's a very shallow word. You just can't understand it.

It takes time to understand the depth of what that word really means. And like, I have buddies, you know, that, and even, you know, just people. You just, you, you, you don't-- Like it used to be like you walk up to somebody, you give them a handshake. Now you may do the hand tap, but then you go in for the bro hug and you're like, "I love you, dude. I think you're the best," right?

And you mean it, and you know what it means. And that's not exactly the kind of love I'm talking about, but as you get older, you start to understand the, the depth and richness of what that word means and what that connection means, cultivating it. And when you know you have it and it's reciprocated, you feel like you can do anything. Even if that person is never gonna be able to help you, like actually help you get to those places, just having that, it, it, it, it allows you to, to, it's almost, it's like a superpower. It's like, it's like getting handed a superpower.

Like I, you know, you know this person loves you no matter what. You're like, "Well, shit, I can do anything then." I, it, it's c- it's so interesting to me and I, I gotta-- I, I believe that too, by the way. I believe that, and I believe that there's especially parental, everyone needs mentors, but I think the parents have that because kids actually are brought up, no matter what shortcomings their parents have, they actually, you can feel that kind of like inherently, like this person, you know, changed my diaper in the middle of the night or whatever, cared for me more than when-- And as the older you get, you realize that like if they didn't care for you, you wouldn't be here. Yep.

But I got w- w- you, you mentioned that there was a period of your teenage life, so not your, not when you were young and c- can't remember, that your father was incarcerated, and yet you state, and I believe that, that it didn't impact the love, and yet his influence on you and his, you, you still were, you still felt like he was loving and therefore you could do anything and keep hustling through that, and that inspired your hustle. Yeah. But yet he couldn't actually do anything. So, so what does that- What could that mean? And many would say he, many would say his influence was the opposite 'cause he was incarcerated.

So- Look- So what does that- There are certain aspects of his life that I've used as an opposite template of what I wanna be. I mean, that's for sure. True. But my dad has, my dad is, is for, you know, look, he is an Irish Catholic South Buffalo guy who, who was raised in a fucking train yard. You know what I mean?

Like he's a, he's a railroader, and they're hard and at the same time, you know, there was never a question that he loved me, ever. Never a question. Never had a problem sharing it. What does that mean? Just hug me, tell me, be there for me, play with me, you know, whatever the things are.

But he was in a jail cell for three years of that. That's what I'm pressing on. What- Yeah, yeah. Well, well- I'm trying to get the, 'cause that inspired you. So what, what- Yeah.

Well, so- What, what is, what was that? Well, I, to me, look, I was, I was angry, but at the same time, that's his life, not my life, and, and I've never needed anybody for anything. So like, you know, I didn't need him. I, I wanted him there. I wish that he could've seen my junior and senior year of baseball and football.

It was some of the best sporting years of my life. I wish that he could've seen that. I wish he could've helped, you know, been there through the process. Not that he could've helped me or influenced my decision, but I would've loved for him to been there as I was going and looking at different schools, which I went and looked at all of them by myself. I took a- Fucking bus from Albany to Rochester, which I've never, I ha- it's the last time I ever taken a bus, nor will I ever take another bus the rest of my life, unless it's like some sort of travel bus and I'm a professional speaker and someone is paying for me to be on like some badass like, like Rolling Stones- I'm in ... style travel bus.

I'm in with you. Yes. I'm in with you. Other than that, I'm knocking out- My grandparents used to take the bus from Syracuse to Port Authority- Yeah, yeah. No thank you ... for the Jewish holidays.

That's cra- uh, yeah, I hear you. Yeah. Totally hear you. Feel it. But m- maybe that's m- maybe that's the influence.

Maybe the influence was that his greatest impact was, I'm not even talking about the things that you said would be the opposite, but that the love and the support transcends everything, and that's the great... People think that you have to be like, "Okay, son. I'm gonna now show you how to build a, how to balance your checkbook or how to-" No. You know? No, they don't care what you say to them.

Your kids don't care what you say to them. All your kids care about is what you do. They watch every frigging move that you s- that you make. They watch every move, and they do what you do. If you're fit, if what you make working out a priority, your kids are gonna see that and they're gonna understand what it means.

If you read, your kids are gonna see that you read. If you work, your kids are gonna see that you work. If you show love, if you give hugs, if you're compassionate, if you're funny, it doesn't mean they're gonna be you, but they are going to see and, and grab onto everything you do as a framework for how to live their life. And what you want, in my opinion, what you wanna do is give them the best framework to build upon. And, and, and so here's what I...

So my dad, despite, despite his shortcomings, um, you know, said to, said a couple things to me that have always stuck with me. Um, at a very young age, and, and I'll, I don't know the context of why he started saying this to me, but he said it to me many times. When you become a father, your only goal in life is to make your kids better than you. Not to give your kids a better life than you, but to make them better than you. Those are different things, and I think most, especially yuppie liberals, they fucking lose this, right?

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We have a tremendous lineup of people coming in, uh, men and women who've done incredible things, sharing their stories around peak performance, leadership, growth, sales, the things that are gonna help you, uh, grow as a person and grow your business. But they all check out comments, ratings, reviews. They check out all this information before they come on. So as I reach out to more and more people and wanna bring them in and share their stories with you, I need your help. Share the show, subscribe if you're not subscribed, and I'd love for you to leave a comment about the show, 'cause I read all the comments.

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They think when they hear that, "I need to send my kid to the best school, and I need to make sure he has the best friends and has the best clothes, and when he gets to a certain age, he needs to have the best car." And it's like, nah, that's not making your kid the best kid. That's just giving your kid a freaking life that you, maybe you didn't have. And I get it, but that's not the goal. When you become a father, and again, I'm not a mother and, and I don't identify as a woman, so I can't talk for moms.

So please, the women out there, don't take this as me. I just don't understand your role the way I understand being a dad, okay? So just that, that's it. There's nothing more to it. When you're a guy, you can be a complete fuckhead and wreck your kids' lives, or you can be a man and you can help them be better than you.

Now what that means is I try to teach my kids emotional control. I have severe ADHD that I deal with every single frigging day, and there are days when all I wanna do is rage and be crazy and like talk at 10,000 miles an hour, and even right now I am throttling how fast I really wanna speak. So like I, but that emotional control has, has been a detriment to me that, uh, you know, at times before I really understood what was going on with me and why I was the way I was, which I've only really figured out in the last few years, I would allow myself to get way out over my skis and not be able to operate with a level of emotional control that was appropriate. So what I try to do with my children is help them understand it. They're like, even if you're as mad as you've ever been in your life, there are appropriate moments, like maybe on a sports field, right?

Or maybe when you're by yourself or et cetera, when letting that out is appropriate, and there are moments when that is inappropriate, not because that feeling is wrong, but because this moment, it will do nothing productive to show that. Now- It will actually be bad for you. That would be, yeah, no, it would be bad. So, so that's like one of the things, and, and I talk to them like they're adults, right? I don't, I don't talk to my kids like they're morons, 'cause they're not morons.

They're just, they're just young. They're, you know what I mean? They just haven't had as many life experiences as me. So like I talk to them about big concepts. I talk to them about things like discipline.

I talk to them of things like strength and why, you know, this, this beta-driven world where we all need to be these cushy, soft, nice to each other is not the real frigging world, and we're starting to see that, right? Like except for this period from like the 1950s to, you know, whenever a Barack Obama came into to office, you know, we had this very, you know, kind of even, uh, probably, probably till Trump, right? We had this time period where everything was just safe. It was very safe. Everything was safe.

Safe, safe, safe, safe, right? It was just safe 'cause there was so much prosperity. Well, we're-- That's what? 70 years out of 2 million of, of human existence. Like, it- we have to be strong people.

It doesn't mean, you know, and, and, and I, and I talk to him about things like, you know, and I don't know how far off context we are here, but like I've said to him before, "If I ever hear you bullying somebody, you're gonna get it. Worse, if I ever hear that you watched somebody bully somebody else and you don't step in and stop that shit, that's when you're really gonna get your ass whooped." I was like, "We do not let... You need to be stronger than these people," right? That's how shit gets bad.

When strong people let shit happen to weak people, that's when stuff gets bad, and if you consider yourself a strong person, you need to not allow that shit to happen. You need to step in and take the fuck... If someone's gonna punch you in the face but you protect that kid who's a weak, who, who maybe just isn't as strong or maybe comes from a liberal family, right? Like, you, you need to step in and be the strength, 'cause someone needs to do it. All the crazy shit that's happening in our world today is 'cause for a long time we have been telling people that being weak, that being nice, that being passive, that being be- beta is somehow, uh, a virtue, and it is not.

It is not a virtue. That does not mean that you're aggressive. It doesn't mean that you hurt people, that you're a bully. You have to separate it, and that's the nuance most people don't wanna do. But Jordan Peterson says this as appropriately and perfectly as I know exists.

The virtue is to be a fucking monster and then learn how to control it. That's the virtue. There is no virtue in being weak. There is only virtue in being strong, but knowing how to control it in everyday life so that you can operate in a positive manner in h- in, in society. And these are the kind of things that I try to teach my kids.

And, and by the way, I think that that's where a person, and, and I like that quote by Jordan Peterson, by the way, um, and that, that's where a person can actually have the most influence because when that child is the one, when that kid is standing up for the one who's being bullied, not only do they grow, does your child grow an extra six inches, if you will, metaphorically, but that kid that they stood up f- for, now, when they could have had a negative experience and become that weaker person, now may get to a place of strength. Yeah. Which is... And then their hustle will be inspired, and then they pr- have a better chance- Yes. Uh, then they have a better chance of being more productive in their life personally and professionally because they were like, "Hey, th- this person believed in me enough to stand up for me," forgetting about the fact that why they were actually standing up was because what was going on was wrong.

But I'm just saying that person now from a spectator's like, "They didn't let me get punched in the face. Therefore, I'm worth something. Therefore, I'm worthwhile. Therefore, I'm gonna impact the world positively," 'cause they did too. Yeah.

The, you know, it's so interesting to me, um, so much of our public discourse is, is seemingly centered around yuppie suburban lifestyle, right? Which is such a new thing to humanity. It's a bran- this, this never existed. It's not even real life. It's not even real life.

It's not real life. Your cul-de-sac is not real life. It's beautiful and it's peaceful, and I get it, and I'm not knocking it. God bless you. But if you live on that cul-de-sac and you stick your head in the sand and you don't believe that the real world exists out at the end of your road, you are doing your children a disservice.

You're doing yourself a disservice, right? It's why I work out as hard as I do. It's why I-- People make fun of me all the time, I put these boxing videos on Instagram. They're, one, they're not for you, they're for me. They're so I, I literally watch them to see how I'm doing and to hold myself accountable 'cause I want a diary of, of my work, not for you.

I don't think they're funny, I think they're scary. Right? In case you're wondering. So, but I get all these comments, "Oh, boxing influencer, rah." I'm like, do I look, I'm 42 years old.

Do I look like I'm gonna be a fucking, I'm gonna go fight somebody? I'm not gonna fight somebody. However, you know what I would like to be able to do? If I'm ever put in a situation where my physical or my children's physical safety or someone I care about's physical safety is on the line and I need to throw a punch, I wanna knock that motherfucker out. Point blank.

And you're prepared, uh, and that's, that, that's a life lesson, isn't it? It's preparing for the moment. Yeah. That, dude, and this is- You have to put in a lot of work in anything to prepare for that moment because most people don't know when the moment's gonna come, physical, emotional, mental, psychological, business, professional. And if you don't, right, if you don't prepare, then you, th- th- then you won't know what you could do, but you're always readying, readying, readying so that then when fire comes, it's time to fire.

So, so, so this, so I'm working on a book right now. I'm in the very early stages. I have it mapped out. Uh, a lot of the social content I've been putting out are like drips of thoughts, ideas that I've captured, um, but I'm working on this book. The entire idea of the book is exactly what you just said.

It's the idea of preparing yourself for life, right? Not because the, I think I g- I've, I've recently, and I think because the last two years since I was kicked out of my house by my ex-wife, I've been on a very, very deep journey to better myself and put myself in a position to win because I thought I at least had her to count on and realized that I didn't, right? So I truly every day feel like this is, it's gotta be me. Like I can't... I'm, I hope that someday I find another female that I feel like I can count on.

I would love for that to happen. But I need to make sure that I can survive myself and be happy and be content alone and, and strong in that place in order to do that, I think. Okay, so let's take that. But I've been on this journey and I've posted a lot of it online. Again, not for the audience, it's for me.

It's I want my kids to be able to look back at, say, my Instagram handle and go, "That was my dad." ... look at him. You know what I mean? These are the virtues that mattered to him. This is how hard he worked. Like, this is who he was. 'Cause they're nine and seven.

They don't fucking know. I mean, they see things right now, but they don't see me every day. They don't really know who I am. So, um, so I get a lot of these messages. This just happened, Y happened, Z happened, what should I do?

And, and I'm always so appreciative, and if anyone has questions that they think I can help with, leadership, discipline, working out, ryan@findingpeak.com. You can email me anything. I'm always happy to help. My- I get almost zero pleasure from my own, from any success or accolade about myself. It's my, my life's mission is to help other people.

It's, it's my calling is to help other people. I can, I can attest to that. Yeah. I can attest to that as well. And, and I will always help, everything that I can.

I just, you know what I mean? Like, I probably cause myself more stress and less financial success- Exactly. Exactly ... because I'm just willing to help. I just, you know what I mean? I don't know.

I should have, like, a program or something, but I don't know. That being said, like, um, my, you know, I try, I try very much to help them. But then I always, at some point, try to spin it back around to, we need to get out ahead of these things. If, like, if you're 50 pounds overweight, you don't have to be an Adonis, but we gotta start preparing because Joe Rogan said it the other day, "Have you ever seen an obese 80-year-old?" Probably haven't 'cause they don't exist.

Right. You don't make it to 80 if you're obese. So, and, and, and the sad part is what obese means has been creeping and creeping more towards m- morbidly obese. So, you know what I mean? The, the nor- we're normalizing the idea of you being obese.

So, like, you can say, "Hey, you know, Ryan, you're, you're fat-shaming 'cause you called someone a slob." Uh, maybe, but that person's not gonna be alive at 80. That's just a fact. Like, I'm not trying- And, and by the way, that's, that's physical. We haven't even gotten into- Haven't gotten into- ... emotional ... emotional, mental- ... psychological, mental ... psychological, relational, um, energy, spirituality.

Like, do you f- and know yourself, right? Like, and, and t- I, I'm on a journey right now. I don't want anyone to think that I'm a guru. I don't think that I am. I have learned a lot.

I read a lot. I talk to a lot of people. I feel like the last, I'd say five, since Elevate 2017 to today, I've been on this journey. The last two years since I was kicked out of my house has been intensive work, very intensive. And, uh, so I feel good about where I am on the journey, but I don't want anyone to think that I'm, like, a finished product.

I- that would be crazy. Um- Yep ... so, but it's prep, bud. You- it's, that's, that's the book. It's the, it's everything I do at Finding Peak. The reason I created Finding Peak was to prepare people for your wife, you know, y- you, you think everything's great and you have a great relationship with your wife, and she gets fucking cancer.

What are you gonna do? You gotta do everything now, right? She's got her own journey she's gotta go on. Are you mentally prepared for that or are you gonna fall apart? Because at night, every night you're hammering pot and drinking beers and eating shitty food, and you don't have the mental energy to make it through an hour of a regular day, let alone a day where the person you love more than anyone else in the world now has fucking cancer.

Are you mentally prepared for that? Because I think we need to prepare now for those things so that we can be at our best when they happen, right? Instead of getting to that moment all of a sudden going, "Oh my God, I need a therapist," or, "I gotta get in shape because I can't handle this anymore." You're fucked at that point. You're already in the storm.

You know what I mean? And by the way, the things that you've prepared for that don't come, you're not worse off because you prepared for them. No. No. Right? 'Cause then you can- No one can say that.

No one, no. You're, you are better across the board. You're, you're, you're always better. And, and, uh, you know, to me, I can't see any other path, dude. I just can't see any other path.

I can't see, you know, I, I, I've, I read the Old Testament, I've read the New Testament. I'm not a scholar, so, you know, whatever, but I've read those books. Uh, I put right below the Bible for me is Jordan Peterson's "12 Rules for Life." I could give everyone a laundry list of frameworks that I think could help you if that's what you're looking for. But the truth is, I'd say step number one is get your fucking ass in the gym and figure out what you're made of. 'Cause what that'll do is it's gonna start to show you the places that you, that you struggle with, right?

Maybe you, like, get halfway through a workout and you start talking yourself out of it. Well, that means, that means you need to work on discipline, and maybe you just need to work on mental energy. Maybe you work on physical. Okay, so let's work on diet. Maybe you're not, dude, maybe you're up till 1:00 a.m. watching shitty TV every day and you're only getting five hours.

So okay, now we know where that problem is, right? So, like, I feel like- It's so crazy you say that ... the gym exposes us. Yeah, sorry, sorry for interrupting. But it's so- No, no, you're good ... it's so crazy you say that because, uh, you know that I'm a practicing Orthodox Jew. Yep.

And one of the things that we do, we fast, there's six fast days a year, but two of them we fast from sundown to sundown. So 25 hours, no, obviously, I'm not talking about people who are sick, but the average person fasts with no water and no food for 25 hours. Now- You can't have water either? Or- Nothing. Gotcha, okay.

Zero. 25. Now, what's interesting about that is the average person, again, I'm not talking about people who are sick, so I'm not, I don't wanna get to that. You know, obviously people have diabetes and I'm, I'm not getting there. The average person can fast for 25 hours.

At a certain point, it just becomes mental. Yeah. At a certain point, when there's a half hour to go or an hour to go, you're not gonna collapse. You're ju- you're just not. You, you have enough hydration in your body that it's just, that's just not gonna happen.

So I j- I started thinking about this, and it's like, you know, they, p- people take these, like, slow-release caffeine tablets so that they don't get the caffeine headache. And I'm pretty convinced that one day those things are gonna come out that they're just a placebo, but that's the mental side. But it's just incredible to me, the people who prepare and actually put themselves through those things, then when something comes up, like There probably will not be a time in my life where I will not have access to food for 25 hours. It's probably not gonna happen, right? I mean, thankfully where we live, you know, just not gonna happen.

But what about the next thing where it's like, okay, if I could get past that mental hurdle when it's, when my brain said my body can't do it, then what can my body do next? I wanna, I wanna pivot to business if that's okay. Yeah. I'll give you a new business example of this. Yeah.

I'll give you a business example. So I was in Ohio at the Big Eye of Ohio event, uh, probably four or five years ago. Um, great, great group. Love them. Um, this scenario was no fault of theirs.

Uh, I'm have about 200 people in the room, and about five minutes from going on, I'm sitting in front, and all of a sudden I see the, uh, VA guys in the back scrambling like a, like a bees nest, right? They're just ba da da. I can, I can tell something's going on. I turn around, the, the screen is off. My mic, I flick that on real quick, bap, bap, bap, nothing.

That's toast. Uh, and I can actually see a little bit of smoke coming out of the computer. Literally, the guy's computer went blue smoke. Like, you know, like the- Ideal scenario ... literally. Ideal scenario.

Poof, gone. So n- so I, you know, kinda walk back and I go, "Hey guys, what's going on?" They go, "Wh- uh, b-" They, like, had nothing to say, right? They were like, they were like, "We got nothing." So I said, "All good.

Do your thing. Go take a break. I got you." Turn around, took my thing off. I go, "Guys, this is all broke.

We're just gonna go anyways." No slides, uh, no, no, no mic, um, nothing. No music, no intro. We just, and we had a great time, and people were clapping and laughing and engaging and talking, and we had an amazing time because I prepped for that. I was so prepared physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, content-wise for that moment, that the fact that everything about the thing was fucked didn't even phase me.

I just said, "Eh, we're gonna do it without slides. Here we go." And off we went because I didn't go, "Why does this happen to me?" I didn't go, "Oh my God, my throat and is gonna hurt tomorrow from yelling." I didn't say, "What am I gonna say next?

I don't have my slides. I don't know." Right? I just, I had prepared myself in every aspect of that engagement and was physically, mentally, spiritually, emotionally prepared and had the content up here dialed in that it was as if we had planned it. And I started doing presentations without slides after that 'cause I actually appreciated the audience engagement more than when you do have slides.

And, um, that's one of those moments where like, look, that's a business moment where if I'm, if I'm hungover, if I'm out of shape, carrying extra weight, I may not have- Mentally weak ... mental energy, right? May have foggy brain. Uh, if I'm like a woe is me, negative, pessimistic person, that doesn't work. Um, maybe I start worrying about how I'm gonna feel the next day or the way my, 'cause my throat hurt the next day 'cause I'm fucking screaming at these people for an hour. So like, you know, all those things could have been negatives, and instead I was like, "Fuck it.

We're just gonna kill it anyways. Let's go." And that was only because of preparation. I couldn't have spun that up and done that if I hadn't done all the work beforehand to be ready for that moment. That is, yeah, that is keep hustling, par excellence.

I gotta, I gotta pivot back to something else you said- Yeah, yeah ... because when I think of Ryan Hanley the hustler, this is what I think about. Okay. The guy you said, right, basically thrown out of an industry. Yep. And anybody, and I, I, I encourage everyone who's listening, look Ryan Hanley up.

You'll see he's literally a superstar in the insurance industry, and I'm not just saying that. I'm saying that 'cause it's part of my question. It's like you said someone went out there, had all your speaking engagements canceled, and I personally, Aaron Gordon, in the last few years have been at your speaking engagement, so I know that something turned around. Yeah. And like you obviously, I know, I know you're gonna say that you just dropped a huge F-bomb in everyone's face, which I get, but like, how, how did you do it?

How'd you come b- You could've done a million other things, and I know you tried something for a little while. Uh, but like wh- how did you get t- yourself to a place where you were like, "I know that the hill in front of me is steep. I'm not starting at zero. I'm starting at negative 100." How do you get back to the top?

How do you find that peak? Not to be cliche, but like how do you get back there? You think I'm gonna let that fascist fucker stop me from doing what I wanna do? That's, then that's how he wins. He wins when I give in.

They also sued me. They did a whole bunch of sh- shitty stuff to me. Uh, uh- I don't give a fuck. You know what I mean? Like to me it's- So what does that mean?

What, what does that actually mean when you put your head on the pillow and you're like, "Oh, I think I wanna get back to the insurance industry after they kicked me out and-" I, I just- "... badmouthed me." ... didn't care about them. It was never about them. It's also never been about my own celebrity or what people think about me. I, I want to help independent ins- I wanna help anybody really. I mean, the stuff I do at Finding Peak isn't specifically to the in- insurance industry, uh, but you know, I find, I find insurance people to oftentimes be some of the highest quality, just deep, rich, amazing people who think so little about themselves and their career, and I felt like it was on me to help them understand how important they are, how important their work is, how amazing they are, how they can start talking about what they do in ways that actually provide value and provide meaning and substance and purpose.

And like, you know, that's what we did at Agency Nation was our sole message was being an insurance agent is cool. Like, you're, it's a great job. Like, you are important. And people were like, we were like one of the first ones. Before that it was like everyone was like, "Oh, you know, don't talk about the fact," or, you know, we're kinda, "Oh, you like whisper the fact that you're an insurance agent."

I was like, "No." What the fuck is wrong with you? This is the m- we, as a profession, we give more per capita to charity than any other industry in the entire country. Like, we are the bedrock of local communities. Like, this is important.

You are important. Like, it's-- and, and that I felt like, like that-- and, and again, if you think back where I came, where I came from, dude, this industry, despite the fact that it keeps rejecting me like a fucking virus, um, like- ... the, it has given me so much. I mean, I came from, you know, dude, second hand sweatpants and shopping for clothes at fucking garage sales to, you know, and my parents did the best they could. That's not a n- I don't mean that, my mom was like, "Oh, you make it sound like our life was so terrible." I was like, "Wow, they did call our house the crack house, Ma."

Um- ... but like, you know, it, it, it's given me so much despite all that, and there's so many amazing people in it that I'm not gonna let some bureaucratic fucker who-who's got a vendetta against me for whatever reason, I'm not-- He wins when I stop. So, so, and, and people like him. So I'm not gonna let that guy, who I know makes, make, made decisions that weren't in the best interest of the industry, at least from my perspective, I wasn't gonna let him win. So, uh, I had this mission and purpose and people that I wanted to help and, um, I love doing it to this day. I love talking to insurance audiences.

Um, I love that there's a whole new crop of people who are sharing messages and are, and are out there. Um, I think that it's way noisier now, um, which makes things interesting, but, but I think it's a good thing. I think that people are sharing and creating and, and, uh, there's, there's a whole new crop of young talent that's doing amazing stuff, and it makes me so happy because there are-- You can go look and find articles in the insurance journal specifically naming me and Jason Cass as like pariahs, like that we were spreading misinformation about the industry and that, you know, we need to be careful when you're listening to the things we say. And I think that, you know, for, for however you feel about Cass and however you feel about me, I'm very proud of the fact that I think we blazed a trail for even people like yourself, dude, to come in and have these, have these, uh, platforms and have carriers accept them, vendors accept them, other agents, communities accept them. Um, I think we took a lot of the early fodder and it's a, it's something I wear as a badge of honor.

100%, and, you know that I'm grateful to you and, uh, but, and I, yeah, I can't imagine what it was like doing that. That's crazy. Now that I think about like, you know, they probably, they probably gave you like a dress code for the speaking engagement that involved a certain tie. It's crazy. Dress codes.

I had people heckling. I've had, I've had- ... dude, in the early days, I had hecklers every time. I've had guys yell out. I had one time, we were in Connecticut at a Big I event. It was probably like 65 people.

It was a young agent event, and this guy was not a young agent. I don't know what he was doing there. He's easily in his mid-50s. And he is, it-- Uh, so I'm doing my thing. He is sitting back in this chair with his feet up on a round table like a douche.

And about halfway through he just goes, "Nope." And, you know, so I'm like, so I kinda stop and I look at him and I'm wait- you know, I'm waiting for more. He's responding to me talking about, I'm talking about digital marketing, you know, big controversial thing here. Um, and uh, you know, he's going, "Nope, nope, nope." "I-- That's bad advice," he's saying.

"That's bad advice." And I go, "Oh, really?" You know, "Get... Talk to me about that." And he goes, "My client," he goes, "I've been in the business for rah, rah, rah."

I'm like, this is fat old white guys, you know. And uh, like, "I've been in the business for rah, rah, rah, rah, rah." And I'm like, "Okay. So you ever shop for a house online?" "Well, that's different."

I go, "Oh. Oh." I go, "Well, okay. How about not you? Any of your clients ever shop online for a house?

Ever? Has that ever happened? They've never done that. None of your clients have ever shopped online for a house." "Well, you know, I mean," da, da.

And I'm like, "So let's start making..." You know, and by the end, right, so I, I have this whole thing. At this point, he didn't realize who he was playing with. He thought that he thought, he thought he was gonna come in and be the big dick, and he didn't realize that he was, uh, he w- you know, he was a minnow swimming in a shark pond. So I basically the sole second half of this presentation, and I got his name.

Once he told me his name, I knew he was fucked. His name was Bill. And I'm just like- ... bam, bam, bam, da, da, da, bam. Maybe not Bill's customers, but here's how you get-- I started going, "Here. You want Bill's c- you guys want Bill's customers?

I'm gonna show you how you get Bill's customers," right? So I started using him as my-- By the end, he's laughing. He hired you as a consultant. He comes, yeah, he comes up and he goes, "So, uh, like, how much would it cost to, to have you come in?" And I was like, you know, so it was funny.

Yeah. And he, he was a good guy, but like, dude, that kind of shit was e- every presentation there'd be one or two of those guys. Usually it would be white dudes over 50. They'd all be in the back. They'd be standing most of the time.

They wouldn't even sit, and they'd just be shaking their head no and talking amongst each other the whole time. That was normally what happened. Um, but every once in a while they'd have something to say and usually regret it. Um, and, and it was just, it was, I don't know. I found it to be fun.

I mean, I, I love that. I, I, those, that kind of confrontation, like, you know, it's just hard, man. Like, they don't know. They look at me-- So look, when you look at me, I'm six foot four, I'm 192 pounds. I'm in shape.

I'm like a reasonably decent looking guy. I come off very preppy. The way I dress is very preppy. Uh, I just like to dress preppy. I don't, I don't know.

Um, so like I think they look at me and they see like, probably they think maybe like ivory tower or like really nice suburban, you know, whatever. Like, "Who the fuck is this guy?" And they don't realize that like, you know, outside of like being raised in another country and going through war or like being maybe in an inner city and having to deal with like true like crack issues and shit like that, I had all the other stuff. Heroin- Uh, pot, alcoholism, trailer park life. Like, that was what I came out of.

So, like, you in your f- mm, shirt that doesn't fit, that isn't tucked in in the back because it's not, you know, wide fit or whatever, like you, you're n- you're... Do not come up here unless you're ready to play. And, uh, I think once, once people started to realize that, um, I was willing to fight back and I think eventually once they got to know me, that I did really, a- at my core, I cared about... It was, I was only sharing this message as a way to, to care about people. And then in all fairness, dude, I also did, like I listened to their feedback.

I didn't want them to dislike me, right? And I wasn't doing it to be purposely combative. That was also not the point. So over time, I have massaged my message in a way that allows those individuals to feel heard and understand and understood while still delivering this innovative message. So, so I tried to take on some of that responsibility as well to say, "Okay, I'm just not gonna keep coming out here and, and punching these guys in the face.

That doesn't work. I want them to be on board as much as the young kids in the front. So is there a way that I can draw everybody in?" And, you know, I think over the years I've been able to do that. I, I don't know about anyone else who's listening, but I'm pumped after listening to you.

I, I... This is-- I, I started this podcast to hear from hustlers and to have people inspire others' hustle. And listening to your hustle, I've, I believe that we started with love and then we got to if you have a mission in life and you believe in the mission and your mission is to ultimately do good for yourself and for others, then nothing can stand in your way and you can keep hustling right through that. There's meaning and purpose. Like, so everything, e- everything I've read, everything I've learned, you know, all the talks I've had with mentors, coaches, family, friends, um, I really struggle with one thing.

One thing that's hard is, that I struggle with, is people who are not willing to go deep, like shallow. Like, and I don't mean shallow like, uh, uh, like, like physical appearance shallow, like that kind of shallow. The- I mean people who maybe- Like they stop. They stop. They just don't- They won't, they won't- They're not willing to go deep.

I struggle- They won't dig that. Yeah, but, but anyone who willing is, I'll have that conver- I mean, I've had conversations with people on airplanes, in an airport. I don't always love talking on airplanes, but like, but anyone who's willing, if I can s- God, you gotta be a fun... I would love to sit next, not neck, not next to you on the airplane. I would love to do that, but I would love to- We're- ... be the guy behind you- ... when you, when you're, when you're, you know, cutting it up with- Wow ... the guy next to you, who immediately regrets not just watching his, the screen in front of him.

Yeah. Well, I- I, I got you ... I don't love... What's up, buddy? Hey, I'm just on a call.

I'm almost done, all right? Okay. All right. Um, I- All right. Sorry, my kid just got home.

That is, that is- So, um- ... literally, I j- I just want, just for the listeners, if you can't see, Ryan's kid just got home and he went from being this tough guy to this like mush softie. And now we're gonna lose, we're gonna lose the passion, but that's okay. I wanna, I wanna close, we close this podcast- Yep ... with, uh, we ask our guests to please share their current or lifetime favorite inspirational or motivational quote, but in your case, I'm going to tell you that you can't use the Jordan Peterson that you just used earlier in the podcast. Okay, I got another one for you. So- I got another one ... we'll take another one.

Go for it. Yeah. Uh, this one is by Ralph Waldo Emerson, and it is from his epic essay, which I have now read seven times, "Self-Reliance," and it goes like this: "God will not have His work made manifest by cowards." There's not much more that needs to be said. I, Ryan, I appreciate it.

I appreciate you. I appreciate your candor, your honesty. Uh, anyone who wants to reach you, we'll have all your information in the show notes. As we close every podcast, I would like to remind our listeners, always do well by doing good and of course, always and forever keep hustling. I'm going to Shabooms.

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