Heath Shearon on Becoming the Mayor of Insurance Town

In a crude laboratory in the basement of his home. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the show. Absolutely tremendous episode for you today. We have Heath Sharon, the founder of the Insurance Town Podcast. Now, we talk a little bit about Heath's recent transition from Encompass, where he was a marketing rep, agency ambassador, whatever, to being full-time on the Insurance Town Podcast, what that meant, when he realized he was ready to make that transition, how he made that transition, and where he sees the Insurance Town Podcast goes.

We talk a little bit about the industry in general, and ultimately want to know what the future looks like for Heath, and it's just an awesome, awesome conversation. I couldn't believe, like with Brett Fulmer a couple of episodes ago, I couldn't believe I hadn't had Heath on the show yet, and I was excited to share him with you. If you don't know who Heath is, if you do already, you're going to enjoy this. And if you're not subscribed to the Insurance Town Podcast, I think it's a great ad to your iTunes or Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. The Insurance Town Podcast is a great ad.

All right, so we'll get to Heath in just a minute. Before we do, I want to give a big shout out to our sponsor, Advisor Evolved, the greatest insurance websites in the history of the world. There is no other option. If you're using another website provider, then just understand that you have chosen to use a lesser option than Advisor Evolved. I've been Chris Langell's buddy for maybe 10 years, and I always bust his chops about being from Jersey.

Chris and I talked before Advisor Evolved was even a thing. He was still an agent. And watching him grow this company, watching the quality of his work evolve, although he always made good websites. I mean, Rogue Risk is probably like the third or fourth website that he's built for me. And I just, I've never had a problem.

He knows how to fix things. He knows how to get them done quickly. His websites work. They rank for SEO. They're fast, which is so important.

They're not filled with garbage plugins and third-party nonsense that slow your website down. And all this stuff matters today. I mean, SEO is one of the primary, you know, inbound SEO traffic is one of the primary places that Rogue Risk gets new leads every month. And that's in large part thanks to Chris Langell and the work that the fine people at Advisor Evolved do. So I want to give a big shout-out to them.

I also want to give a shout-out to Mick Hunt and Premier Strategy Box. I know I always give Mick shout-outs, but I just think the world of Mick and think the world of what him and his people do. And if you need kind of managed, if you need one of your teams managed, if you need your producers trained, if you need your agency Zoom or your automation tool set up with high-quality emails and kind of automations and follow-ups and all that kind of stuff that matches your language, what Mick is doing at Premier Strategy Box, in my opinion, is best-in-class agency consulting, revenue-driving services, and it's worth knowing Mick. It's worth knowing his team. Check them out at MyPremiereStrategyBox.com.

MyPremiereStrategyBox.com. Go to MyPremiereStrategyBox.com. All right. Let's get on. He's sharing.

Yo, dude. Coming in on mute. What's up, bro? Podcast master coming in on mute. You know it, dog.

Well, I know you come in hot with the recording already started, so I got to make sure I'm muted before I get started saying something. What's up, man? Man, I'm just chilling. Yeah, yeah. I've been recording all day, so.

Yeah, you said today's your batch day. What does that mean? Oh, I recorded four today, and so it's just been a morning full of recordings. It's been good. That's the best way to do it.

You know, before Rogue, that's how I tried to do it. I would actually do batch weeks. I would basically try to get like four to six recordings in over the course of one week and then take a couple weeks off. Just to kind of clear my mind and all that, and plus it's just easier. Once you get in that podcast mode, you're questioning.

You kind of get in that question mode. But yeah, that's the best way to do it. Sporadically, like right now I'm doing one or two a week, so I'm only ever one or two weeks ahead. There's a lot of pressure on that. Yeah, that's how I started off the first year.

And then now I'm trying to get like 12 weeks out so I can enjoy the summer and not have that pressure. But again, I worry about having dated material sometime, but that's all right. I'm still learning this game. I'm not a pro like Ryan Hanley, but I'm getting there, bro. I'm getting there.

Don't take anything I do as pro. Look at like Cass or Carruthers or Flowers and Scott Howell or Caitlin Eck. Look, they're all so much more pro than me. I'm the least pro of the whole group. Yeah, but you've been doing it longer than everybody else, so.

Yes, but I also do it mostly because I like talking to people, not because I want to have a podcast. Truthfully, you know, I record these because people find them interesting. I have more conversations like this off-air than I do on-air. I just like talking to people and learning about what they're doing, and then I just record these because people seem to like them. But if people stopped liking them, I would still have conversations.

Right? No, I'm with you. I'm the same way, bro. I'm the same way. Yeah, well, I mean, that's how you and I met.

I mean, you just randomly called me one day on the phone, I think, from wherever the heck you were in Arkansas. And I think you were like, dude, you know, I've been listening to this Agency Nation podcast, and you don't even know I'm from Arkansas, da-da-da-da, and you're with Encompass at the time, I think, and then we just, we chatted for like an hour, I think, you know, we just were chatting and had a good, great conversation, and then, you know, been buddies ever since. So, I'm surprised it is the first time you're on the show. That's, I was thinking about it the other day. I just did this with Broker Brett.

So, Broker Brett's coming out the week before you. Dude, we did it again. I just recorded Broker Brett. He's coming out tomorrow. You son of a bitch.

Dude, you always beat me. Mine's coming out Thursday. I'm emailing Cass' people right now, telling them to get it out now. Get it out right now. We have great minds think alike, bro.

Yo, Broker Brett's cool, though. He's ADHD like a son of a gun, though. He's all over the map. We had a good conversation. Yeah, I enjoyed, I enjoyed, I enjoyed that.

And it was the same kind of deal. Like, I've known him for three or four years now and communicated with him a lot. We've had calls. I've actually been on the podcast that he used to do with Nick Lamparelli for Insurance Nerds. I've been on that show and talked to them.

And I was like, you know, I think people, there's definitely a general misconception that I take this podcast more serious than I do. Because I just like saw him. I was like, man, when's the last time I had Brett on the show? And I said, well, holy crap, I've never had Brett on the show. So then I sent him a message.

You know, I think I actually DMed him on Twitter, which is weird. Adam Sheridan is the only other human that DMs me on Twitter. And that's like our special space. So, Adam, I'm not calling you out, bro. Keep doing it.

And that does not give any of you other people who are listening license to DM me on Twitter. But I DMed him on Twitter and I was like, yo, dude, you got to come on the show. Like, I can't believe you haven't been on. So that's funny. So everyone listening, the inside joke is, you know, without planning, Heath and I are constantly stealing each other's guests.

Yeah, dude. And I try to get guests that nobody else has on. And then sure enough, Hayley will have them or I'll have them right before you. It's just funny. And that's part of the game, I guess, with the podcast deal, I guess.

But because everybody makes their circuits and they make their rounds. Yeah. And you beat me to Mick Hunt, too. You had him on your show and I had him like several, I guess, a year later. But either way, that dude's amazing.

That dude's amazing. Yeah, makes the best. Makes the best. Mick Hunt from MyStrategyBox or Premier Strategy Box. But go to MyStrategyBox.com.

MyStrategyBox.com. Go to MyStrategyBox.com. A future sponsor of the Ryan Hanley show. No, current sponsor of the Ryan Hanley. Oh, is he?

Okay, current. My bad. Yeah. Hey, there's no one better in the agency management consulting game. And obviously, he does a lot more than that.

But what I've always been impressed with about Mick, and I want to talk about you, too, obviously. But what I think, what I love about Mick is I actually met Mick at Billy Williams' event in Florida in February of 2020. So this is, like, a month before the zombie apocalypse. We're down, maybe it was January, it doesn't matter. We were down in Texas at Billy's thing, and there's this dude sitting behind me, and he's, you know, talking every once in a while, and he's saying some shit.

And I'm like, I really like what this dude is saying. Like, he's saying some stuff, and I'm like nodding my head. I'm like, wow, this dude sounds really smart. So finally, at one point, I just turned around, and I'm like, who are you? Like, how do I not know?

Like, the stuff you're saying is so on point. Like, and the way he was saying it was so authoritative, I was like, how do I not know who this person is? So then we started rapping, and we ended up going to lunch both days together, and now, you know, now he just busts my balls about the Bills all the time. But, yeah, he's, they're locked in over there. That's, they got a lot of, they're producing a lot of winners, let's put it that way.

Dude, that's how the best relationships happen, is who the hell are you, and why don't I know you? That's how most of my relationships start. I think that's a general miss by a lot of people, and myself, early in my career, so I don't want to pretend like I somehow came out with this understanding. You know, just in general, I feel like we don't randomly reach out to people enough. Like, we just don't, like, you know, and I'm not talking about just blowing up somebody's email with 10 million requests.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying, you see someone who's doing something, or saying something, or engaged in something, and you are genuinely intrigued, or feel like you can add value. That's the best way to reach out. Man, those random touches, even if in the moment the person doesn't lock in, you know, they're like, you know, because a lot of times, everybody, you know, you, me, everybody, it's got 10 million things going on. Maybe that moment, you can't completely go down the path, but you definitely take a mental note.

I mean, you know, it was really cool, that person to reach out, or, geez, that resource they sent me, that was cool. And then, maybe a month, maybe a year, whatever, later, you, you, you, you come back to them, and you go deeper. No, I 100% agree. And that's the way I've built most of my relationships in this, in this industry for the last 20 years, is just reaching out to people. And one of the things that I think I do, that a lot of people don't do, is, you know, when I hear a guest on your show, or on whoever's show, you mentioned a whole host of shows earlier, I'll pick up on and call them.

If they leave their contact information anywhere in the show, I'll just be like, dude, I enjoyed hearing you on the Hanley show, or I enjoyed hearing you on whatever show. And people want that. They go on these shows for that. And some people don't do that. And so, I try to encourage people after my shows, like, hey, reach out to this guy, talk to him, because he's got a lot to say.

He came on the show for a reason. Yeah. You know, and I think that's really cool. And that's how, again, how I got to know you. You left your contact somewhere, and maybe you slipped your cell phone out there.

And I was like, dude, I'm calling him. And so, you know, and again, we've become friends since then. Yeah. Now we text every week, or we talk as much as we can. So, and I appreciate that.

Yeah. No, it's good, man. And the other thing, too, I think, about the podcasting thing, and we've talked a lot about this, because behind the scenes, and for you listeners, you may not realize this. There's no reason that you would. But a lot of the podcasters in our space, we talk to each other.

We share. We actually got a Facebook group chat thing, where most of the time we just make fun of cast. But occasionally, we do share information. And my point in saying that to you is that I think it's not combative. Like, I bust chops about, you know, about Carruthers, and Flowers, and Howell.

And, you know, we're always kind of like, it's like a friendly competition to a certain extent. But at the same time, it's, at least for me, and I know that you share this value as well, so I'm going to speak for you. I think it's really about just our industry growing, being more connected. And that's why I never care if you or anybody either comes out with a guest right before or right after. That's the same.

Because you're going to talk to somebody a completely different way. Like, you're going to ask them different questions. You're going to go down different paths. You're going to be interested in different things that I'm going to be interested in. And I have my own philosophy on how I like to talk to people.

You have your own philosophy. Scott and Bradley do their own thing. Cass is a different way. Carruthers is a different way. You know, Caitlin, you know, all the different podcasts, they all have different ways.

And I think when someone does do the circuit, you could say, I feel like it's good to listen to a couple of those because you'll get something a little different from each one. No, I completely agree. And I like what you said there because a lot of times I'm listening for or talking to them about a totally different avenue because I come from a different background than you do. I come from the South. You come from the Northeast.

I come from second generation. You don't, you come from starting up your agency a year ago. I come from, you know, 20 years on different sides of the fence. And so my question is going to be different. And I'm not near as intelligent as you are.

Some of the words you say, I have no clue what they are. And I have to Google so many of your words that you say. And so the mayor is not that smart, but it's really cool. I forgot what you said the other day. I wrote it down to look it up.

And my wife was like, you're an idiot. You don't know what that means. But it was a really good word. I appreciate it. But.

Yeah. I read too much as a kid. I was, I'm secretly very dorky and I like reading books. It's not that secret. I'm playing.

So, you know, well, yeah. So not so secretly dorky. And, and I don't even know. My wife makes fun of me all the time. She's like, why do you talk like that?

And I'm like, I don't even know that I'm saying these things. And half the time, I don't even know if I'm using the words right. I just like read it one time and it sounded good. So I don't even know where it comes from. Like, you know, I'm sure if someone did like a, like a fact check on my podcast, it would be like all, all falses, like, or whatever the thing is like, you know, it would be, it was, that would get crushed in a fact check.

I'm sure. Oh, by the way, um, this is probably should be edited out maybe, but do you know that the most word used on your podcast is probably serendipitous? Yeah, it could, you know, I agree with you. I don't, well, you know, I think that especially recently, so I will, I will give that to you recently for sure. And I, and I think the reason is, um, where I'm at in life and in business, uh, I'm very grateful for this particular moment.

And you know, how, um, you know, how it, uh, a cliche, and I don't know that I'll phrase it properly, but it's kind of, you know, essentially is like, you never know when you're there until it's over. I feel like I'm living a moment in my life when I actually am aware how happy, how grateful, content, how much love respect, how much challenge, like I'm living in a moment right now where I feel, you know, and I'm not saying everything's perfect. Don't get me wrong. It's not like, I haven't paid myself in 15 months, you know, like, you know, there's a lot of things that aren't perfect, but I, I have my, my relationship with my wife, my friends, the people I talk to, my kids are amazing seven and five. My older son is super into baseball, which is like my dream.

You know, I love baseball. So like, I'm in this moment and I'm, I don't know how I got here and I have no other word to describe it other than serendipity. I just, I don't have a way to say, like, I didn't plan to be here, but I found myself in this moment. I wake up every day. I'm happy.

I'm excited, challenged. I have love and I don't know how else to describe it. So I think that's probably what it is. It's perfect. I think that's another reason why it's a great time for you and I to talk because I'm in that same boat for, you know, a good majority of my career.

I couldn't say that I was at that place in my life where I was, you know, satisfied. I feel like right now I've hit the lottery in my career and it couldn't be, you know, again, like you said, it's not perfect, but it couldn't be any better to be able to get in a place in my life where I quit the company job to go full-time into insurance town is a lot for me and it's exciting for me and it's a happy time for me. So the serendipity thing, you know, I say it's a buster chops, but at the same time, I resonate with that and that's what makes you so relatable, at least to me and I'm sure the gazillion listeners you've got out there because it's just refreshing, especially in our industry when it's full of negativity and full of, you know, naysayers and whatnot. And to have someone that's, you know, positive sends that vibe. It's super cool.

So I'm excited for you. I'm proud of you. And I'm happy to hear that things are up for you. Well, thank you very much. And, and I want to really get into, I want to get into the psychology of, of making that transfer in a second.

I do, I want to just piggyback real quick before we get there off of what you just said about the negativity and, and you know, I, I had a, I had a moment on Twitter today, actually in recording this, where I, I saw a tweet from someone who works in the insure tech space for a platform that specifically services agents. And this particular individual continues, in my opinion, to post inflammatory comments that while I'm assuming the point is to be provocative and to create conversation comes off as very negative and comes off as, um, um, it just feels very like 2016, you know, every, you know, agents are idiots and incapable of doing this and they won't do this and they can't do this and mama, mama, mama. And I just like, you know, I hate, I just can't help myself. Like the, the Irish, like fiery, crazy person that lives inside of me comes out and I'm just like, ah, you know, I'm back. And then, you know, there's all these, you know, there's, there's all this commentary and like, I basically, you, you, you, you said negativity.

I just wish in general, in our industry, and we'll never get there and people aren't perfect and neither am I. And I do this and we all do this, but I do hope that, you know, I learned a lot of lessons at Agency Nation. I was, at different times, I was part of the problem. I will admit that. I think in 2017, 2018, I started, I got over it, but certainly in 2015, 2016, when the insurtech revolution was first started, I was part of the problem.

Um, I think, I really wish we could get to a place where we stopped blaming each other, right? Like I was going back and forth with Nick Ayers on this and it, which, which was a very productive part of this Twitter exchange because I, you know, as much as I don't always agree with everything Nick says, I do think the way he thinks about things, I really appreciate. Um, you know, we were going back and forth and I was like, man, there's no perfect agent. There's no perfect carrier. There's no perfect association.

There's no perfect tech vendor. Like, can't, you know, can we cut each other just a little bit of slack? Like maybe if no one is adopting your technology platform, it's not because agents are stupid. It's because you haven't actually solved a real problem. Like you've solved a problem that you perceive, but you know, I know a lot of agents who aren't heavy tech that make a lot of money.

So why are you saying that they can't or won't? They've obviously figured something out. Maybe just your solutions are right for them. And I, and it goes the other way to agency to stop holding insurance technology vendors to such a high bar because man, there's a lot of legacy crap that goes on. And, and it's, it is impossible to just walk in and be, uh, uh, an end all solution for people.

So I just wish we could all just mellow and understand that agents are part of the game. Tech is part of the game. Carriers are part of the game. Associations are part of the game. And the more we can work together, uh, man, we, we rise a lot faster and, and, and it's never gonna be perfect, but, um, that's a little kumbayash, but, uh, that's kind of the mood that I'm in.

No, it's, it's, it's right on because that's a huge problem that I have. And I see in our industry and it's easy to get sucked into those Twitter battles or those fights on the groups and the chats and the, whatever else, because we are passionate people. Um, I know I'm speaking for you and I, and most of our industry, if we're doing something, you know, it's, it's a passion that's coming out. Yeah. And, you know, I think about, you know, a quote, I think it's, uh, Simon Sinek who says, you know, if you're working hard for something you don't care about, it's called stress.

But if you're working for something that you're, uh, you care about, you believe in, it's called passion. Yeah. And I think that you and I, you know, in a lot of our industry, including Nick Ayers, we're passionate about what we believe in. And so that passion comes out and it does come across negative a lot. And so I'm hoping that, you know, just by a little somethings that we do, maybe even this podcast can help inspire at least one person to be positive today.

Who knows? Yeah. Yeah. Nick wasn't the guy that I initially bucked at, by the way, just in case anyone's worrying or wondering, I, I have, uh, uh, uh, an enormous amount of respect for Nick for a lot of reasons. Um, so dude, okay.

So we've, we've chit-chatted about a lot of nonsensical and out of context things, which I'm sure the audience is very familiar with, but I am super interested in one of the, one of the reasons that I want to have you on the show is I'm, I want to, I want to learn more about your decision. First, I'd like anyone who is unaware of maybe just a little bit of your history. Just, just give us the quick backstory, but then I want to get into the decision to go full podcast, you know, full, full insurance town, like that couldn't have been easy. Maybe it was easy. I don't know, but, but maybe give us the quick backstory and then let's, I want to start to talk about that because it's such a bold move and I'm so happy for you.

And I just want to learn more about, you know, the mentality behind it. Okay. So the quick story, you know, just, you know, for people that don't know who I am, I come from, you know, 20 years experience in this business, second generation, and I've always been, you know, either carrier side, agency side, but my biggest footprint, I feel like in this industry has been on the association side. You and I share that other side of the fence. I was real big PIA guy.

My wife runs the PIA of Arkansas. My father actually works for the big I in Arkansas. And so I've always been heavily involved in associations and I got put on some national councils and boards and things like that. And I would travel all over the country and get to go to different events, similar to you, whether I was speaking or attending. And, you know, one of those events I went to, gosh, seven, eight years ago, again, a fact check, that's probably wrong, but however many years ago.

And when I got to the event, my name badge, you know, had, you know, they always say your name and your company. Well, this one said the mayor on the name tag. And it had, you know, the company I was working for underneath it. And I was like, this is not my name tag. What is this all about?

And I think I was in like Missouri somewhere. And so I was out of my element, a little bit out of my state anyway. And they're like, no, we changed your name tag to the mayor because we've had at least six or seven people today come up and say, well, where's he, you know, where's he sharing? Where's he going to be? Where's his booth or where he's going to be speaking or what, you know, round table discussions he had.

And so it was flattering for me because I was just a redneck from Arkansas and for them to call me the mayor, it was a super cool thing. And so when the pandemic hit, you know, fast forwarding, the pandemic hit, I'd always had this dream. I think I talked to you about it a year and a half or two ago about starting a podcast and I never did do it. I sat on my thumbs and just said, I'm not going to do it. I don't have enough to say, or I'd have all these self-doubts and whatnot.

And finally pandemic hit and February or March, I mean, and my wife was like, you have no excuse. It's time to do it. And I had good friends of mine, you know, that would push me into that direction. And it was like, you got to do it. You got to do it.

And so I finally just, you know, said, okay. And, you know, your friend in mind, Sid Rowe was one of the biggest proponents for me to do it. She goes, I'll be your first guest. And that'll give you some credibility right off the bat. You know, having Sid Rowe, the wonderful person that she is, come on.

To this day, she's like a sister to me and she flipped the script on me, my first episode and started interviewing me, which I thought was interesting. And, you know, from there, you know, the podcast just, it's grown little by little to a point to where I started getting my first sponsor, you know, you know, about three months in. And I thought it would take me forever. I talked to, you know, Bradley Flowers, you, some other people early on, I was like, what are my numbers supposed to be? Where am I supposed to be at?

And I kept checking the numbers, like every 10 minutes I'd refresh my numbers, like most early podcasters do. And, you know, Bradley gave me the best advice at one point and said, don't look for a year. Don't even look at your numbers, which is impossible for a podcaster, but don't look, especially a new one. And I kept looking and finally I just turned it off and didn't look anymore. And about three months in, I had my first sponsor come in with Canopy Connect.

And then from there, I think you've actually hooked up with him. But then, you know, after that, you know, I had another sponsor come on and then I landed a really large sponsor at the end of 2020. And, you know, got to a point where I was like, holy crap, I can actually do this. And it affords me the opportunity to do what I enjoy. And that's talking to people, as we talked about earlier.

And I enjoy, through doing this, you probably get the same thing most people do. I get agents that call me every week or carrier reps that call me every week. You're like, hey, I heard this on the show. What do you think about this? Or I want you to come speak on this panel.

Or I want you to, your ideas on this or that. You know, I was like, I really am building authority here that I did not dream that I had. And again, it just started snowballing into a place where, you know, my wife and I prayed about it. We thought about it a lot. And, you know, in, I guess, March of this year, I decided I'm out.

You know, I'm leaving Encompass, Allstate, no bad ill will towards them. It's just something I wanted to do. And I had a dream and a passion to do this. And I have a real, you know, ministry mindset as it is. And so I look at this as a way, you know, for this to be a ministry for me, to be a calling for me, so to speak.

And, you know, it's probably more than you want it, but it's exactly what led me to where I'm at today to jump out on my own. I think got my LLC and everything started in April and I'm just full-time in insurance town now. It's awesome, man. I'm so happy for you. I mean, I still remember the conversation that we had.

You were driving from Arkansas to some, some other state that I, you know, I couldn't point out in a map. And, um, I, you know, I just, you know, you're doing, you're going some meeting to another agency or wherever you're going. And, you know, you, we were just talking about your ideas and do you think, you know, I remember you talking about, you know, who, who should I interview and how do I get interviews? And I was like, dude, just freaking do it. Like, just do it.

And if you do it, what's going to happen is people are going to listen. You know what I mean? Like, that's, that's what happens. Like the crazy part is that people start listening. And, you know, it just, it, you know, I completely agree with not looking at your numbers because like, honest to goodness, I couldn't tell you how many downloads I have.

I know approximately it goes up a little bit, it goes down a little bit, you know, um, you know, when, when Carruthers and Cass and Flowers started talking, started talking shit, I had to put them back in their place. Um, you know, which is fine. You know, everyone forgets that, you know, I've been here for a while. So, you know, I think what's amazing is that you stuck with it. And, and I don't mean that like you stuck with it, like you were incapable, just, it is so difficult early on when you launch those first half dozen, dozen podcasts, and it feels like no one's listening.

You know, you see a hundred downloads and you're like, oh my God, I put this much energy and effort and passion into something and freaking a hundred people listened. And I just say, man, what if you made those hundred people's day? What if those hundred people, you just change the way they think about whatever it was you're talking about, man, that's worth it. You know, when you think about, and you've probably been there too, I've been in rooms where I've been speaking to a crowd and it's, you know, maybe 30 or 40 people in the room and you're giving your keynote and you're doing your talk or whatever. And you think about that same scenario, let's go back to that hundred number you threw out.

I'm in front of a hundred people every week, you know, whether I'm interviewing somebody or talking from my own mic or whatever, it's just cool to know that every week I'm in front of, you know, now more than a hundred, but you know, it's cool to know that those people. So if you're thinking about starting your own podcast or whatever industry that is, it doesn't matter those numbers. Cause again, if 10 people out of that hundred people got something out of it and bettered their career or change something in their industry, you've changed those people. And I've gotten those emails. I know you have too, to say, man, if I wouldn't listen to your podcast, I would have never adopted what's up guys.

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Peace. Let's get back to the episode. Yeah. Yeah. I, you know, the podcast for me, you know, I don't really write that much anymore.

I don't do the videos to the industry anymore. Obviously, that's not my job. Um, you know, but the only thing that I wouldn't give up is this show. You know, I just, I would do it if I had zero sponsors, you know what I mean? I mean, I have some sponsors.

I don't push the sponsors really hard. I have a few companies that help me pay the bills and really is my only personal income. And it's not that much, relatively speaking. Um, I don't work the sponsors as hard as Carruthers does or Cass does or Flowers do or probably even you do. Um, and probably to my own detriment, but at the same time, I don't, you know, I think we all approach this for different reasons and I, and, and I don't think anyone is right or wrong.

I don't think who you interview is right or wrong. I think that's the beauty of this particular genre of communication is that it can be whatever you want it to be. You know, like I have another podcast that I do, which is a lot, which is capital region business podcast, right? It's a local podcast for the Albany area. Man, there are days and I don't want to do it.

Um, but I've started to get introduced and people have started to reach out in my local region. I didn't even know who they were and I'm learning their stories and their stories are awesome. There was a guy who won. I didn't even know this. His, his gym, his, his gym is, is probably 10 minutes from where I'm sitting.

He built this physical apparatus called the focus master. It's like a boxing martial arts thing. Then you, it's like, um, you know, when you see like in Creed and they're like pop, pop, pop, pop, pop with the bags and the guy's doing the bags with his hands. It's like that, except you can do it by yourself. So it's pretty cool.

Well, he won this dude, one sweat ink with Jillian Michaels, like national TV reality show was in LA for eight weeks, filming this thing. And like kept making the cut and making the cut and made it to the final round. And ultimately one, I didn't even, I had no idea. You know what I mean? We had to interview him and tell his story.

And now, you know, he emailed me the other day and was like, Hey, you know, I got a few new members because of that. And I'm like, this is why we tell people stories. Like, this is why you show them and you do the work. You're exactly right. And that was one of the things for me when I started my podcast.

And again, the mayor thing was kitschy and cute, but I love the whole small town feel thing. And I love the whole, you know, the community looking out for each other. And, you know, I love the idea of connecting others and enhancing one's day any way that I can. And so for me, the insurance town is a cliche or as niche or kitschy or whatever, you know, small town thing it is for me, it fit my personality perfectly because, you know, that's what we do as, and as you have in your own agency, you know, now you see and how important that is. You always did, but even more now to get involved in your community, get involved in things and do things like that.

And so for me, that's what I want to do for our industry and connect people and to have people, you know, you know, going back to my very first sponsor, when they first called me, we're like, Hey, I had 12 new people sign up from listening to your show. I was like, Holy crap. You know, that's what I'm doing this for. And, you know, when I get other people that come on, you know, other, you know, sponsors that I won't, you know, bug your show with my sponsor names, but, you know, when they start calling me, Hey, I got a new sponsor, I got new this, I got new customers, or like I said, those emails you get of, Hey, I adopted something new because of what Hanley said on your show or because of whatever said on your show, it's a, it makes it all worth it, man. And it makes it so much, I guess it makes you feel good about what I'm doing.

I'm finally doing something. I've always had a passion for the industry, but be able to do what I love and to do what I enjoy. And that's running this yapper of mine. It's just fun, man. And if I can give back to someone's day every day, it's just fantastic.

Yeah. The other thing, see, I, I, I, I mean, I know you're calling it kitschy, but I hope no one takes that as, as, as anything other than I, I think what, I think it is awesome the way that you're presenting it because our, it's probably the reason why I've become you know, not, not just since I started the agency, but just over the last few years, going to bold penguin and then leaving the industry for a time and then coming back into the agency, like, you know, moving from agency nation to bold penguin, not that there was anything wrong with bold penguin. I just became slightly more detached from the industry. They didn't really, at the time we're not selling to agencies. It was more carrier related.

And I became a little more detached. And then when I went to the fitness industry, obviously I tried to stay up with what was going on, but I became very detached. And then when I came back, what was amazing to me and, and I feel such an obligation to continue to add value back to the industry. Because when I, as soon, you know, as soon as I got canned and I was like, you know, my first thought was I'm going back to insurance. There's no doubt.

And as soon as I kind of announced that I was coming back to insurance, it was like, I had never left to a certain, you know, in, in terms of the friendships and the partnerships and the connections, it was like, it was like, I had always been there. And, um, I'll, I'll always be forever thankful for that because I don't know that the industry realizes, nor do I, do they need to, but for me personally, it was incredibly meaningful, like as meaningful as anything professionally in my life that it was kind of like, oh, okay, come on back in. You know what I mean? Not, you know, The prodigal son has returned. Well, I don't know about all that.

You know, I, I just, I just mean like, you know, it was just nice that you could just call people and it was like, oh, Hey, you know, you know, whatever it is. There's what you missed. Like, let's get back to work. And, um, and, and I think what I like about your show is you reinforce the sense of connection that agencies have, then agents have to each other, producer to producer, agency owner to agency owner, you know, account manager to account manager. And then across all those chains, there's such a bond, even in quote unquote competitors that I don't know, unless you're in it, you understand.

And I think it needs to be nurtured. And I think you're doing a really good job of it, man. I really appreciate that. One of the biggest compliments I ever got, and I tried to stay humble, but you know, a compliment that I've hung on to forever. When I was working at a company called EMC, uh, my boss back then, you know, he called me a lot of bad names, but he told me, um, yeah, you know, no one that he's ever met understood the industry better than I did.

And, you know, it meant a lot to me because, you know, I may not be the smartest insurance guy. I don't know big words like Ryan Hanley, but you know, but I do in that Southern humility thing to me. And I've spent too much time in the South to fall for it. So, you know, but honestly though, I never felt like, you know, I knew coverages like the back of my hand, or I never understood the latest and greatest marketing tools, but I knew the industry. I knew how the industry worked and I knew that, you know, this industry more than anything else is one big, great community.

And it is a way that we can connect to one another and relationships have always been a lot to me from going back 20 years ago. I still have friends of mine. And what's even funnier is when I first started calling on agents 18 years ago, I had agents I would call on that changed my diapers at conventions when my dad was an agent. And so it's just really cool to know that, you know, I had that kind of relationship going that far back and I could still call on those people today and they're still friends, whether they're in Mississippi, Arkansas, New York, or Utah, it doesn't matter. Yeah.

It's cool how we're all connected together. And then even further, when I got into podcasting and I hate this term, but when people, you know, you come insurance famous or whatever the hell it is, you know, it's one of those things that, uh, it opened up so many more doors for me. And when I got invited to be a part of the Facebook groups that, you know, as you talked about earlier, or I've having phone calls with Ryan Hanley or Carruthers or Cass or people that I've looked up to in the industry, uh, and become really close friends with different people that I never thought I would. And it's really cool when people call me and say, Hey, I'd like to be on your show. That's so you're humbling and a very cool thing to be a part of.

And it just shows, I mean, I, I'm absolutely in love with this industry, obviously my, you know, God family, but then this industry is just, you know, a love of mine that I'll never forget. So I'm cool. It's cool to hear you say the same thing that when you left and came back, it was, you know, one of those welcome with open arms type of deal. Uh, and I, you know, I was one of those people that for a year or so, when you were gone, I was like, dude, this is not the same. You know, I looked for your videos and I looked for your voice and, you know, I've been a fan boy of Ryan Hanley's for a while.

And so it was cool to have you come back. And I was one of those. I couldn't wait to hear you back in the, on the airwaves. Well, thank you. Um, I do miss, I do miss doing the videos with all the camera tricks and stuff.

I will say, I mean, I'm never probably gonna ever do those again, but that, um, I go back, you know, it's funny and go back and watch those sometimes, you know, and I don't go back like in search for them. I'll see them pop up like, you know, on YouTube when you're scrolling through stuff and all of a sudden boom, it'll show you one. And I'll be like, ah, you know, I'll watch this. And I, cause I forget, you know, I forget did a lot of those. I think my last one was like 55 and then, um, I tried to do 56 on my own and, um, my former employer at the time asked me to stop doing that.

So, uh, so that's when the videos kind of came to, I think I had to give them a different name. I think I moved it from the show to the Ryan Hanley show. That way I wasn't breaking any trademark infringements though, but I don't want, I I've, it's all water under the bridge actually, uh, have, have redeveloped a good, a good solid relationship with our friends at trustandchoice.com these days, which I'm, which I'm happy about. That's a very good thing. So, um, yeah, it is a good thing.

You know what's, you know, it's funny. This is off topic, but, um, um, do you ever see the movie, uh, uh, King, the latest King Arthur, Guy Ritchie's King Arthur, really cool movie with Charlie Hunnam. Yeah. Yeah. The bad, bad-ass, bad-ass King Arthur, sons of earner for some phones, the sons of anarchy guy.

Yes. A hundred percent. Yes. That one. I can't remember the subtitle, but that King Arthur.

So in that movie, he says something that I don't know why this quote has always stuck with me, but it has, and it's actually like worked into my real life and I would file, you know, my new, my, my, my, my, the reflame. My relationship with, you know, chip and everyone over at trusted choice.com, um, from this is he says in that movie, he says, it's better to have friends than enemies. Right. And he says it like three or four times, like in different situations where like someone who was of a different nature would have like beat the guy up or fought him or something. Right.

But he's like, he like lets them off the hook and kind of brings them, you know, brings them, brings them in and they become friends where he does it with the Viking. He does it with the guy that was trying to sell the shirts or whatever, whatever. I can't remember the whole plot. Go watch the movie. But, um, but, but I've, that's stuck with me since I saw that.

And I've always, I've tried to be, I'm going to say I always win, but I've tried to hold grudges and say to myself, like, it is better to have friends than enemies. Like that is a better thing. Like, and, and maybe, maybe it's why I've been a little touchier, um, on the socials when people start blaming each other for stuff. Yeah. It's because, you know, that doesn't get anybody anywhere.

You know what I mean? We don't, we don't move forward and we need to move forward. That's the truth, I guess, is, is in the, this is kind of where I want to take the remainder of our conversation is from my, you know, being that you have a podcast now and you've been doing it for a while. One of the beauties of the podcast is that you get to, uh, talk to examine, get the perspective of a lot of different people from a lot of different places in the industry. And I feel as strongly as ever that we have to keep moving forward together.

That rhyme was unintentional. Um, and I, you know, I don't, I don't know. I, I, I just, I don't think we can do it alone anymore. That's my thing. That's why I actually had a Billy Vandura was kind of bashing aggregators and stuff, which I get where he's coming from.

That's not a knock on Billy, but I said to him, like, you've never seen Indian then like you, there are, you know, you've never maybe spent any time with CLI and, uh, and what they're doing Canyonlands. Why I said, or smart choice. Yes, there are, there are networks and aggregators out there that, that, and, and, or, or even goosehead goosehead, you know, goosehead agents, uh, Billy Wagner is an enormous proponent of Brightway and the things they're doing. Like there, yes, can aggregators be a, be a negative maybe, but man done right. They can really be a productive place.

And, and I don't see startup agencies. I don't, I'm blessed that I have this show. I've been able to get, I've, I've leveraged this notoriety to get appointments. I unequivocally, you know, my, my, my, my, my business plan and my performance and COVID do not necessarily justify, you know, some of the appointments that I have. I'm, I'm aware of that.

Like I'll make good on it down the road, but it certainly doesn't justify it at face value. So if you don't have this platform and you try to go out on employment, it'd be effing impossible. So I, I don't, if we want fresh blood in the space, then we need aggregators. So that's why I said to him, you know, take a look at Indium and you know what he did? He called Indium and then he tweeted me back and said, I was wrong.

They're different. And, and there are others. I'm not just, I use Indium. That's why they're not a sponsor or anything. I just, I love Chad.

Well, I love Chad Eddie too. He's a good friend of mine, but so on that note, and this is a soapbox. I probably stand on too often, but, and I say this a lot on my show probably, but, you know, if you look back 10 years ago, let's say the talk around the industry was the small independent agents are going to go away. They're going to be bought up and mergers and acquisitions. And, you know, you're never going to have it.

If you're longer, if you're smaller than 5 million in premium, you're not going to make it or whatever that arbitrary number was. That's a total different shift. Now you fast forward to 2020, 2021, I think that it's a different shift now to where they're the ones that are going to be the making it or the ones that are going to be still around 10 years from now are the small mom and pop shops that can pivot. They can, you know, change directions quickly. They can adopt technology quicker.

You know, they're more nimble and I'm proud of that. And a lot of that, you know, I'm going to differ both than you because I feel like aggregators are a big part of that. Gooseheads are a big part of that. The people like that are a big part of that instead of the big bank owned giant behemoth agencies, now we're seeing those, you know, to throw out my sponsor and smart choice, they'll help those little guys that are startups and they're going to be the ones that are thriving. Yeah.

And I love that about industry going back to the community aspect and we need each other. And, you know, another shout out, whether you like them or not is, you know, the DJ and them over at IOA and the way they've connected people in a way, whether you're a fan or not, or whether you think it's this way or that way, they've brought about a community and, you know, same thing that PIA or Big Eye has been doing for years, but they found a way to do it, um, that brought people closer through the social media. Yeah. I, I just, you know, IOA has the slogan down perfectly better together, right? That's their, that's their slogan.

And, um, I, I think that they're a hundred percent right. I think they do amazing things. I think that the amazing part about the time period that we are currently living in is you can be a Big Eye member, an IOA member, a member of smart choice. You can have two direct appointments. You can, you know, you can have a referral partner and a health benefits company.

You can use, you know, Tarmaca and you can use this other, you know, and, and it's okay because those, that path, that thing, it's like a, it's like, it's like your fingerprint, right? Like I'm getting licensed in, in Florida and California to go get fingerprinted. So, so it's like your fingerprint, like you, the groups you choose to operate in the technology you choose to use the systems, right? I, I, I've been working with, uh, Matt and Amoli and Chris Paradiso on EOS. I want to implement EOS in Rogue where we haven't started it yet, but I've been talking about them and, you know, they, they're huge believers in it.

Um, I know a lot of other agencies, I think when Stromso was on the podcast, he said that he uses it and, um, it's a, it's, it's one way to operate an organization or an agency, but it's not the only way. And it may work for you. It may not work for you. And my, my point in saying all that is we each get to have this unique thumbprint and I, we need to support each other as much as possible in building the thumbprint that is right for us. And your thumbprint is going to be different than my thumbprint.

I mean, some places it may look similar, but in other places it's going to look different. And that has to be okay today. Right. Like the idea that PIA New York and, and big eye New York fight each other tooth and nail over the stupidest things is bananas to me. Like I can't even get involved in it.

I, I, people have asked me my opinion and I'm like, it's, it's all dumb. It's all dumb. Like that, that these two organizations that are supported, that are supporting agents fight each other, like legitimately fight each other on different things. And the nuance to those differences is bananas. And, and I get it, they're both businesses and they're both entrenched.

And, and to say that one should take over the other, they should merge. That those are, those are, those are implausibilities. But I do think that this idea of us being very accepting of, of you're a PIA agent. I'm an, I'm a big I agent or vice versa or whatever. It just doesn't matter because there's, it's almost impossible for us to be the same.

And if we can accept that and grow together, there's so much information to share and learn. Yeah. And it goes back to one of the things that my wife and I always say, whether it's big I or PIA or IAOA, whatever I always said, I'm, I'm going to go somewhere with this. So bear with me a minute, but I always say, you know, whatever you're getting involved in, you're going to get out what you put in. And so if you're one of those that sit on the sideline, you put your head down, you're only work in your own agency, you don't get involved in anything else.

You're not going to, you know, you're not going to thrive near as well as if you're involved in our industry, whether it's whatever association you decide to get into, you've got to get involved in our community. You've got to get involved in the industry. You've got to learn people's, you know, what they want to do, how they do things. Because you may not have ever heard of EOS unless you knew Chris and Matt. Yep.

You know, I may not have ever heard. I had not heard of EOS until, until they threw it at me. I would have never heard about half the shit I've heard about, excuse me, half the crap I've heard about until, you know, I got involved in our industry over the last, you know, 10 or 15 years and got to know certain things that are going on. I don't know about podcasts. I've never even heard of podcasting until I find your show and other people's shows.

And so again, if you're listening to this and you're not involved in the industry in some way, form or fashion, or in your community or in a niche, you know, association or whatever it is, crawl out from under a rock and get involved because the only way you're going to better your industry or your agency for that matter. Yeah. I, I think that's a soapbox of mine. No, no. I think you're a hundred percent right.

And, and dude, I've said it a million times. There's only one rule on this show and it's, if you catch a tangent, you got to stay on it, um, never cut a story short. Uh, so I think just to kind of surmise or, or boil down or take a derivative of what you just said is there's no reason to be, or to feel alone. If you don't like that feeling, right? Like if you're the kind of person that just, you're the lone wolf warrior and that's the way you operate, God bless you.

It's America. You can do whatever you want. If, but if you feel alone and you don't want that feeling, know that you can email me, Ryan at roguerist.com. You can email Heath. I'm not gonna throw your email out there unless you want to, but you know, feel free to reach out because there's so many ways to stay connected and meet other people.

I have agents that I talked to once a quarter on the other side of the country and we just checking on each other. How's it going, man? I'm doing great. I hired a producer this, or, Hey, I'm really struggling with my, someone emailed me the other day. Hey, I'm struggling with the third email in my commercial line sequence.

What would you recommend? Right. I mean, I just said, Hey, I'll export my email sequence. I'll send it to you. Use whatever makes sense.

I don't care. So like, you know, those things are so available. Oh yeah, a hundred percent. Don't feel alone. I guess, I guess is the point.

If you're listening to this, if you're a producer and you feel like you're on an island in your agency, you know, don't, there are ways for you to stay connected and get connected regardless of where you sit. If you're an account manager and you're looking to do something different, or you just want to be better at your job, or you want to move up, there are places for you to go and, and all it takes is a simple reach out. So never feel alone. No, I completely agree. And it's Heath at insurancetownpodcast.com.

I would accept those as well. And there's so many people in this industry that reached out and that have become friends with me over the last, you know, year and a half, even that have changed, you know, the way I look at this industry, even from what I already did. I've always been in love with this industry, but yeah, I love that. Don't feel alone because I think that we need each other in this industry and we're so much closer now than we ever have been because of, you know, social or because of internet or because of pandemic or whatever, you know, and I find it fascinating to me. And so, you know, I'm so blessed and I'm in this industry that I'm in this small town of insurance town and I'm a self-elected mayor there and it means a lot to me.

And so, um, yeah, I love where you went with that. So I appreciate that. So my last question for you, you can interview anybody in the insurance space, right? We're going to put this out into the world. You can interview anybody in the insurance space right now.

You get to pick, they're going to say yes, regardless. You just have to say their name. Who is it? Oh, you know, if you were to ask me this, you know, several months ago, I said Billy Williams, but I had Billy Williams. So if I want to continue the Southern kiss in your ass, I'd say Ryan Hanley because you haven't been on my show yet, but, uh, man, that's a tough one.

Um, cause I don't know the answer to that. Um, I'm still trying to learn all the names and the people that I'd want to hear. But, uh, if I could have any guests say yes to me outside of our industry or in our industry, I'd have to say Simon Sinek. I'd love to have him on my show. I'd love to hear what he has to say.

And another person I would love to have on my show that would say yes, um, would have to be John C. Maxwell. I'm a huge fan of John Maxwell. That's a good one. Uh, he's such a great, you know, leader guy, um, and talks about leadership and some of my favorite quotes come from that guy.

Uh, but as far as within our industry, that's a good question. Um, and I don't have a good answer. So you might have to edit this part out cause I have no good answer. No, that's fine. That's all right.

So, so what Heath needs is good suggestions. So email him Heath at insurancetownpodcast.com. Good suggestions for interesting people, uh, who have things to say in our space. You know, for me, one of the places that I would love to go, I would love to interview more CEOs and leaders inside of carriers. Um, I find the carrier business to be very, very interesting.

Um, I think that they are the punching bag of our space, sometimes warranted, sometimes unwarranted. Um, and I found carrier people to be very interesting. I just, you know, I think there's a lot more there than you often, I think that a lot of agents assume. And, um, I've always enjoyed some of my favorite interviews have been, um, people inside of carriers. Well, on this note, you know, we'll put this out there cause you could probably help me here.

One of the carriers I've never had dealings with personally, but even in competition with them and hearing from other agents that say what an incredible company they are is Cincinnati. So if you've got, you know, a CEO contact with somebody at Cincinnati, whatever they're doing, but if anyone from Cincinnati is listening, uh, Sean Givler would be a great, he's that runs all of commercial lines for Cincinnati. He'd be a great, uh, interview just recently took that position. Um, I just hear so many good things about that carrier, especially, you know, here in Arkansas, they do really well. And I've heard you talk about them.

Another one I would love to talk to be, if we're going to talk CEOs would be Tyler Asher or Michael Rocco. Some of those type people. Oh, we can, we can make that happen. Just email me offline. I know both those guys.

Yeah. Yeah. We can get Tyler. Tyler and Mike are both awesome dudes. Um, for me, it would be, I would, I would love to do an interview with Trisha Griffith from, from, from progressive.

Yeah. I've met her. She was on a panel in, um, in, uh, at elevate and she did a podcast. I did a brief podcast with her, a brief thing with her, um, for agency nation, but for a bunch of different reasons, we kind of had to be a little more, I would love to get like a more raw version of her story because like, um, she just seems like, she seems like kind of a bad-ass and super smart. And I also felt that she was very, um, she was very composed.

So like on stage at elevate 2018, um, LaRocco took a shot at her cause he, you know, stayed auto. He, you know, in the same thing he took, he took a pretty, pretty gnarly shot at her right on stage in front of 800 people. I'm not a physical shot, a verbal, verbal shot across the bow and the grace and composure that she, that she kept. I, if someone had said that about my company, I would have, I would, you know what I mean? I would have, and she, you know, had this great answer and came back.

It was very composed and at the end, I don't think he looked like the winner in that. And that's not a, that's not a knock on Mike, right? He was defending his base and what he was trying to do. And I think I don't fault him for it. I don't know that it was the best venue for what he said, but, but I don't fault him for saying it only because he, he has his territory to protect and he was trying to do that.

Right. And, and, um, but I just thought it, I was very, very impressed with her and I would love to be able to do like an hour long, a little more raw version and just get more of her story. I think it would be very interesting. I, yeah, that'd be awesome. I'd also love to find some 80 something, 90 old something man who started in the industry way, way, way back in the day.

And there's still somewhat involved just to see that evolution and what it was like back in the fifties or sixties in the industry versus now, right? I selfless promise. I just interviewed with Aaron Gordon earlier this morning and he was talking about his dad, 80 years old, still involved in the agency. I'd love to get him on with Aaron and just talk about what it was like. My dad's 77 still slinging insurance.

I hear his stories, but I'd love to hear. I like those old school stories. I'd love to go sit in an old insurance nursing home, so to speak. can just talk to a bunch of old heads that have been there and fought in the trenches and done the old school method when we didn't have google and internet and the old school knocking doors that would be a cool conversation yeah i my this is the last thing i'll say and then we'll wrap this up but uh my father-in-law my father-in-law has been you know same kind of similar to your daddy a little bit younger but but same generation and um you know he always talks about the the the books you know you you you know you'd you take the liberty mutual book under your right books yeah and you'd open the book up and you okay how old are you 55 okay and you're this and you put this and you add this in there and you're like okay you want uninsured motorist okay okay let's go find that one and what kind of car and and then you come up with this like manual rate right on the spot you have them sign it write a check and then you mail all that to the you're like oh my god you can see why when you think about how it actually had to be done you know when you get down to like timing right like like some of the weird rules around that seemingly are weird today with like e-sign and e-payments you're like it happens so instantaneously and you're like you know maybe you question why there's so much regulation around you know when is a policy officially enforced what is bound versus issued mean you know how how many days do you have to rescind an offer and all that kind of stuff like not in the not too distant past you know you'd sign something put a check down have a rate and then literally it would be days or weeks before the insurance company would even know that you had a policy you know it just wild when you think about you know what it was like not too long ago so yeah it'd be a cool conversation to have that yeah yeah cool all right hey dude awesome i'm so glad we finally did this um yeah you know you you said that i that i've never been on your show obviously i'm always willing and and look forward to the day that you finally uh allow me to grace your airways um and we'll have a fun chat as well but uh appreciate you dude hey for anyone listening to this and i'll say have said this in the in the in the intro as well subscribe to insurance town podcast if you enjoy this podcast you're gonna love insurance town i he gets the highest recommendation from me in terms of you know you're probably gonna start listening to heath and stop listening this show my numbers are gonna go down which i'm fine with so subscribe to insurance town podcast i appreciate close twice as many deals by this time next week sound impossible it's not with the one call close system you'll stop chasing leads and start closing deals in one call this is the exact method we use to close 1200 clients in under three years during the pandemic no fluff no endless follow-ups just results fast based in behavioral psychology and battle tested the one call close system eliminates excuses and gets the prospect saying yes more than you ever thought possible if you're ready to stop losing opportunities and start winning visit master of the close.com that's master of the close.com Do it today.