Episode Summary
well hey Steve thanks for coming on the show man I really appreciate it thanks for having me so I will tell you that um and I I should have mentioned this when before we went live or whatever but uh I actually in the insurance industry like got my street cred whatever cred I have in this in the insurance industry which this is one of the largest Insurance podcasts in in the insurance industry um you know creating video and uh when when your people reach out to me about you know what you were doing and what I be interested in having the show I was like oh my God this is fantastic because I am in no way a video expert yet somehow in this in this particular industry people think that I am so I'm so excited to have somebody on who like knows what they're actually talking about and can give us kind of the the real deal and has resources for for the audience to actually go to and learn more from uh well I I'll try to live up for that I'm I am hopeful that after all these years practicing I know a little bit more about video than most insurance people but I guess we'll we'll find out you know quiz me we'll see what I can do for you so um for a long time when I'm asked uh uh H how do you how do I make video look good how do I make myself look and you know you get all these emails about what cameras I should use and lighting and all this stuff and I'm like and and I want you to critique this advice this is this is what I'm interested in critique this advice start so what I'll say is I'm going to make you Spielberg in in 30 seconds right 30 seconds uh uh grab your phone hold it above your head at a down angle and then find wherever the sun is and be behind it right or or be in front of it sorry be in front of it great and then just don't be in an echoey room so if you have a down angle the sun is in front of you and you're not in an echoey room there's a decent chance your video will be good enough H how how did I how do I do with getting people at least a minimum viable uh Spielberg prodct it's in it's in my top 10 okay right so so I'll tell you I'll tell you where we're perfectly aligned is that spending a huge amount of time worrying about equipment when you're a video novice is a wank you know it's just there is no point to it at all it's like it's like going well I'm going to take my first golf lesson so first I need these $30,000 clubs it just there's there's no way that you know enough to tell the difference between a $15,000 driver and $100 driver you just don't and um so I would say I'm with you 100% on that the other thing is that equipment at this point in the evolution of video is not the thing that determines whether your video is going to be any good or not the phone that you have in your pocket shoots better video than Hitchcock could shoot in his mid 20th century career with a crew of 150 people you know it's just it's amazing um smartphones will make you look good it's almost hard to make them make you look particularly bad so I think that your advice of holding it up so that you can see people's eyes you know when you're looking up at the camera and also um having the light behind the camera basically yeah so that you don't look like a refugee from the witness Protection Program those are great pieces of advice yeah um but even now the phones can probably fix fix it if you put the light in the wrong place you yeah it it is crazy I uh I do not I have not upgraded I have an iPhone 13 but I have a buddy who got the iPhone 15 Pro Max whatever like the newest biggest baddest iPhone and you know it's basically the same thing except I will say like the Cinematic mode on that camera I would have to spend like 10 hours with I used to have a a this is a long time ago I used to have a Canon 1dx and would do all kinds of ridiculous Vlog stuff that was completely unnecessary to do with that camera but I overindulged Etc and it would take me 10 hours to get this like buttery cinematic motion with the you know all this stuff and with that with that he he just was like walking filming his kid playing soccer and it looked like it was like some1 million doll production video and uh I just said we you know this we need to start thinking about and this is one of the things that I this is really where I want to go I wanted to get the you don't have to spend out of the way but like uh uh I was like this we no longer have to worry about how to get the video we like capture the video that's that's we're beyond that now and now we can talk about what feels like the actual harder part which is how do you actually create a video that doesn't suck which is what your video course is on which is what your book is all about and um we're going to make sure that everyone has those resources knows to go there and I highly recommend them for for everybody that's listening um but but what's that next step so we're Beyond equipment and all that kind of stuff how do we actually get something that somebody wants to watch well so the first thing that I tell people is that you have to understand how this one basic thing about how video works and that is that video works in shots so if you watch television or a movie or a really great YouTube video You're going to see that the camera rarely points at the same thing for more than 10 or 15 seconds like in a commercial feature or TV show you'll you'll almost never see a really really long shot but when people go to soccer games or they start shooting an event at work they they run the camera and they run around and they point and they just leave the camera going um for hours and that's not how you tell a story in video video works in small bits that add up to a hole so if the first thing you do is think about video in shots it will make your video 2,000% better instantly so what I mean by that is um a shot is just like a sentence you know when when Mrs Cooper taught you nouns and verbs in third grade that's what you want to go back to so a shot is a noun a verb and maybe an object so Bob hiking is a noun Bob hiking verb right so we can shoot that shot with our cameras if there's no verb there's no action and it's just Bob that's a still photograph right and if Bob is hiking off a cliff which would be the object right then that's a great shot even better because we're going to watch Bob plummet to his death and that's great video right so you want to think about it like a sentence and when the sentence is over you want to stop so if you're at a company function the CEO giving a toast is maybe a shot that might even be a little long the CEO raising her glass might be your shot right and then another shot might be uh Jim accepting an award and another shot might be the waiters setting down the dinner plates and if you think in terms of these short shots then the video that you're shooting of your event or or your home video is going to look like a movie when it falls out of the camera and be much more entertaining instantly than if you just ran it for 20 minutes Mak sense yes no it makes complete sense and so let's let's take this into uh this audience so you know at any given moment there's somewhere between let's say 8 and 15,000 independent agents and professionals listening to this show and a lot of them the reason they listen is because uh what we tend to focus on here at finding Peak is growth scaling Marketing sales Etc okay so if they're uh but but I will say and and and you were you know a very accurate in your initial statement very few if any of them and we could even go so far as say none are professional videographers or video cre creators so um do you think it would it be a a a fruitful exercise to maybe break down say say one of the things that I see a lot of them do is maybe go to a client's location and try to create a little co-marketing video with that client say a bakery or maybe a warehouse depending on what that client particularly is or they're they're providing insurance for how could they maybe we could walk through a little bit how they could set that up what you might do maybe off the cuff to tell the story of that client or their relationship together would that do you think that would be okay sure okay so so once you get the idea that you're breaking down your video into shots the next big thing that you need for a marketing video is the story that you're going to tell so the question that you have to ask as a as an insurance agent is what do my customers want to know that will take them on some sort of emotional Journey that's going to either amuse them or surprise them or anger them or make them feel strongly about my business one way or another what's that story I can tell so if you're going to work with a bakery that that you're working with the first question that you want to think about when you start communicating to your audience is what do they think is magical about working with me and I use the word magical advisedly because I want you to get Beyond oh it's a thing we do like we write insurance you can say that about every single agent on the planet right but saying these guys provide magical customer service and they provide support in analysis and other areas that I would never have expected and they're always there when I need them and they always return my calls or whatever the thing is that makes your agency better than anybody else's agency for the customers who love you that's where you want to start your story so I guess the question is when you talk to this bakery or you're thinking about going to this Bakery what experience have they had that is magical for them in terms of working with you that's surpris the hell out of them that made you stand Head and Shoulders above all the other people because our our analysis of our Target wants to start with the people who already love us right and that's where our stories come from gotcha and then positioning whatever their answer is in kind of what's in it for the audience kind of way would that be taken and then that was that the next logical step is to say okay what do you believe current client and you know whatever friend who owns a bakery is magical about us and then how do we how do we express that in a way that shows what's in it for someone who's watching yeah for sure and and I would I would even go further and be more specific spefic about your next step is once you know what's magical about your Agency for your customers then the question is what story are you going to tell so before you go to the bakery necessarily you might want to make sure that you understand something that all the customers are going to agree with right something that all the customers are going to feel your best customers what do they think is magical about you now if the bakery has a good example of that then that's a story you can tell you can tell the story about how they had an oven catch on fire and um there were problems and they were having problems uh replacing their oven and you stepped in and did XYZ for them that was astounding and surprised them with how great an experience this was and the way you want to tell it is in the form of a story first this happened they had a problem then they had a challenge that they didn't expect and then working with us that challenge was solved so that's a nice little two-minute story about what makes working with your agency magical for this Bakery based on what you think makes working with your agency magical for all your other clients and then you you can tell that story yeah go um so do you have or recommend like uh you know I what I recommend people again not I somehow get asked a lot of questions about video even though I'm not uh a you know this is something this is something I do for my business not what I do for work um but you know I've always used like the story grid model I don't know if you're familiar with that uh and this is synonymous with a lot of people but like beginning hook middle build ending payoff and try to get people to frame their stories in just some way because because otherwise they tend to be Meandering I see a lot of videos that are well-intentioned or maybe even do have good story but but it's like mashed up in all these things and doesn't really tell you why you're watching until two minutes in and is there like a do you teach uh through your work and through your videos's like a framework or something yeah but I think it's simpler than we want to make it and I don't know the story grid per se but you know Plato was the original uh story guy way back in in 250,000 BC so um but I like to go back to to the very basics of Storytelling because storytelling is something that people think is hard it's kind of like uh I'm going to shoot videos so I have to get expensive equipment and when they hear about storytelling it's like oh my God I have to learn how all this works and it's really much simpler than that so let me give you the four elements of story that I like to tell people to use first story is about a person so there's a hero to every story it has a beginning and a middle and an end and if you do that you win right so every part of your story needs to be about someone and have a beginning middle and end so if you're doing that Bakery story about how magical your ability to help people who've had an oven disaster is the first thing that you need to consider is who's the hero of the story and probably you want to make the hero the B Aker but it could be that the hero is someone who works in your agency who went out of their way to help them it could be that that's the story and then the story changes depending on who you choose as the hero which is up to you so if the hero is the baker then at the beginning their challenge is um you know running this extremely busy very popular Bakery and at the very beginning of the story their oven you know explodes and takes half the bakery with it and then the middle is their attempt to make sure that their Bakery is put back together so that they can continue that outstanding customer service and do whatever their customers think is magical about their Bakery and so they come to you with this Challenge and the end is that you and the bakery work together to get them 100% up to speed at the least possible cost and as fast as humanly possible so that they don't disappoint their community and their customers so that's the story if you make the baker the hero if you make the agent the hero then the beginning is the phone call from the Baker and the middle is discovering what the baker's crisis is and figuring out how you're going to help that Baker get their Bakery back together and the end is from the agent point of you what it took to make those extra phone calls to push vendors and to work with the underwriting insurance company and whatever it is that vendor needed to do to get everything up and running as promised by the date promised and what happens when you deliver it so the story changes a little bit depending on who you choose as a hero which is why that's a very important element yeah I love that I think that's that's often misunderstood and and even you know my wheels are spinning in my own head about different things that I've done and uh you know I can I can see I can see that I can see how much the story changes as you as you position that hero um and it does seem it seems the most selfless to make your client but you can also see how internally if you want to highlight certain services or even certain individuals um what that looks like but it does dramatically change the story and I'm positive that most of us listening myself included um probably don't start there we probably just start with hey I want to create a marketing video for this B and I'm going to go over there and have him tell me why I'm awesome and what he does and off I'll go you know and and we're not thinking well so where does so okay so we have the hero where does the audience play into this and or do do they play in like let's say I want to track more small businesses in my local community using this Baker I've decided I really want to tell the story from the the baker as the hero do we draw the audience in do we consider the audience how do we how do we work that as aspect in well this is the thing about video right if you do a video and it's not interesting and it doesn't take your audience on an emotional Journey their phone can transport them instantly to a rerun of family guide right they don't need your video for anything even if you've bought tons of Facebook ads to get them to click on it and watch it they're gone in three to five seconds if they're not treat treated to something that is worth their while so when you say how is the audience a part of this the answer is they're the only thing that matters and this is the one of the parts that we forget when we're doing marketing video because we know so much about our business and we know so much about what happens and we want to tell it all and we want to say why they should be coming to us and we forget that if we haven't drawn them into this story and given them something of value a moment's entertainment a moment's interest a moment's um involvement then they're just gone they have no business sticking around for any of that so the audience is the most important thing and this is another one that people think is hard but it really isn't and the reason it isn't that hard is because you are also an audience and you also click on your phone when you're bored and go to another video and also choose what you're watching on streaming based on how good it is for you right so if you're looking at a story and it's boring don't do it you know if it were as easy as we're just going to put our benefits up on the screen and type that's what you'd see in the Super Bowl but it isn't that easy yeah right we have to pull people in we have to take them on a journey but the good side of that is we know boring when we see it we know what the journey is so the the thing that most people do and sometimes they do this in the name of considering the audience is oh well I must do these things I must have a story hook I must get my key benefit out there and it's like yeah kind those are good things to try to do but first and foremost if your video is boring no one's ever going to watch to get to the story hook yeah they're never going to watch to get to the benefits they're just gone yeah it's uh it's funny I was doing some some research the other day for this podcast and I do you know intermingled with interviews I do kind of solo episodes on topics questions that I receive things that some of my clients are struggle with I'll anonymize them and and answer those questions for people and I you know this is I don't mean this to sound egotistical but I'm sure it's what everyone does I I put a video out and I was like when I got done I was like the content of that video I was like this is really valuable like I'm give you know I'm giving do this and X is going to happen like you know what I mean whatever and it did like eh and I was like and so okay you know you know and I'm very self-reflective you know I try to I just want to get better so I started looking at other people who did let's just call them like straight talking head videos and to what you said and to the audience listening so you guys know that I'm as much at fault and learning like all of you even though I do a a decent amount of video I'm you know I was watching other guys like Ben Hardy does straight talking it's just him talking into a microphone or talking to his freaking cell phone camera for like 10 to 12 minutes straight but in post- production what they do is as you said they might take a still image and and maybe just slide it while he's talking about climbing the mountain to success or you know or he'll have he'll take his face off completely and just have like scrolling term or like uh what is that called motion words where the words come in as they talk or whatever and you know just all these different cuts and moves all it is I mean all he sent to his video production was him talking into his cell phone and you know and obviously the content is good but then he did this thing where you can tell in post they thought okay what is this shot look like what do we need to show here to amplify this part of the message and and and you can just see how much more engagement he's getting how how deeper and richer it is obviously his audience is bigger but like the idea is it this was so validated for me like a month ago it's it's unreal and I was like oh my gosh I am boring the [ __ ] out of people with these you know with you know me talking with a black screen and captions underneath is is literally probably making their brain hurt even if the content is valuable yeah I think if we're subjected to a video that visually bores us you know like 50% of your cerebral cortex is about VIs visual stimuli that's because when we we grew up on the serenety planes you know and we evolved watching for uh stuff that was important to us and we used our eyes as our our primary sense and what we wanted to know was can I eat that um is that going to eat me yeah right um can I have sex with that and uh am I fitting in with the community you know and these are all based on visual cues and if you don't give us stuff that tells us visually what's going on and you don't keep that visual cortex involved constantly we get really bored and what we feel is claustrophobic right so so if we're forced by a camera to stare at one guy just sitting there for 10 minutes we're GNA feel like we're missing stimulation that we should be seeing there might be a wilderbeast over there right somebody with a spear might be over here we don't know we're trapped in this little box of watching this guy um you know talk straight to us for 10 minutes and it just makes us our skin crawl makes us really uncomfortable and that's one of the reasons that thinking in shots really works is because you're constantly changing up the visual stimulus and also like you're saying putting uh words on screen and and different camera shots it's kind of like when I did my video course that I adapted from this book one of the problems with doing a video course that's about how to shoot video that doesn't suck is if your video course sucks you're in big trouble so I had to actually produce it like I would produce a TV show and so it's got all kinds of cuts and it's got all kinds of different shots and it's got actors doing examples and it's got graphics and words on screen and I realized I kind of didn't realize when I started that I was really going to have to get that into it but as I started to watch it and look at the script I went this is not going to work unless it lives what it's supposed to be teaching yeah um and it's hard but once you get into the idea and once you start seeing the world that way in your videos uh it gets a lot easier and becomes habit so that post- production piece is something that I know holds back a lot of people a lot of Professionals in general but a lot of Professionals in our space is they'll maybe they're comfortable enough to get on camera and they're okay at telling a story and let's say they're let's say they're decent at everything we've talked about so far and then but they'll get to that post- production piece and they'll be like yeah but I don't have time for that or I don't know how to do that or I don't have the money necessarily to pay somebody you know because they're assuming it's super expensive so maybe just help help these individuals and and myself included I guess yes better understand the method like how would you recommend to if let's say one of these Insurance you know they take your course and whatever and they call you and they go Steve man I think you're the how do I do this at my shop like I love what you're doing like like I want to be get for me as close to this as I can get but I don't have like a you know you know you know a huge company's budget how do they how do they start to get there um there's a few ways that I'd recommend first let's understand the most important thing about post- production post- production is when you take all that footage you shot and you configure it into something that really tells the story in a tight way and people again think post-production Super complicated the truth is that post- production is cut copy and paste it's just like Microsoft Word so if you can write a word document you can edit a video and the simplest thing to editing that video video is put all the footage in a row in you know in in whatever editing program comes free with your computer or your phone and cut all the stuff that's boring just zap it and then see what you have left and then cut some more stuff that's boring and then maybe move a couple things around really easy now having said it's really easy there are two kinds of people in the world there are the kinds of people who really like to edit video and the kinds of people who would rather kill the M themselves so my wedding video is still not edited and my kids are in their 20s um I don't edit I'm a director I hire people to edit and what I would say to small business owners are two things one is if you have a decent sized agency there is a pretty good likelihood that someone in your agency likes to add it so find them and either assign them some more work or offer them incentives to do some more work for you and see if you can get them to cut your stuff easy right they're hobbyists they love it they'll do it it's good experience for them they get better as they go um another option is to talk to local colleges in your area and find students who are learning to edit and offer them some fair but poultry wage to come in and edit your video for you um another is just practice cut copy paste until you get better at it and forget about all the bells and whistles which odds are our stupid anyway yeah you know nobody needs to see sepia in a video nobody needs the Kaleidoscope effect you know none of that's important movies are told in Cuts so just cut your video together yourself and try it and then your last option is if you go shopping for a real honest to God editor in your Market um most cities have them and a pure editor I don't know Junior editor hundreds of dollars a day so if you've got a grand they can cut you a two and a half minute video and if it isn't worth it to you to do that rethink doing video as a way of marketing your business because once again a video that sucks will not be watched by anyone so either do the editing right and make it look nice or accept the fact that all the time you spent shooting it was a complete waste I know that's harsh but I think it's true I uh can tell you firsthand that it's true because I have created plenty of videos that suck and learned the very hard way uh as I described before that um you know it's it's funny I think if you are if you haven't bought into this concept yet the way your mindset works is I would rather push out 10 [ __ ] Quick videos than spend that same amount of time on one video because quantity over quality right is is I is the mentality and and I and I it's like funny I I've been doing videos since 2011 to Market various Insurance businesses and stuff and like the videos that I took in some cases weeks to create tens of thousands of views still watch today the ones that I pounded out 10 videos in a month just banging them out and getting these ideas out each one maybe has 500 views and people forgot them as soon as they were done and like you know that that but there's still that constant mentality of like I need to get another video out I need to and and we just have to remind ourselves and I'm literally speaking to myself that one great piece of content is worth a thousand of of nothing it's worth all infinite [ __ ] piece a Content probably yeah my favorite example is um Dollar Shave Club so if you look if you look up a video I think they did it about eight or nine years ago it might have been longer I can't remember but look up the Dollar Shave Club video which is around on on YouTube and their introductory video is very very funny beautifully done captures them perfectly it's stunning it took a lot of work to make but as a result of doing that piece that piece alone propelled their company to success and then they sold for like a billion dollars to Gillette I think so don't quote me if I got some of those companies wrong but Dollar Shave Club look it up so a video can make an enormous difference in your business if it's the right video and it will make no difference at all in your business if it's the wrong video because no one will ever see it yeah yeah I agree with that um and for those of you listening if if you remember back in 2018 Sydney row and I created um a dollar shave clubes video to promote a conference that we were putting on and uh uh you go back and you search that I think you can search agency nation's YouTube channel uh but you find that video and look at how many that video took us a month to create it took us a week to uh kind of bull it out it took us another week to kind of script out what we wanted to say it took us another week to plan the shoot and then a week to shoot the video and I still get I still see that video getting viewed and brought up to this day that's something we did back in 2018 and I don't know and this is me because I'm an idiot I've never spent that much time on another video again yet that is still by far one of the best piece of content that I've ever created so maybe I need to remind myself of the lessons that I've already learned and I am so glad that you're on here Steve to remind me of how short my memory is and how much of a dummy that I am so um we all are really I'm joking I um well I I think this is great I you know I will say that in our industry um there is a growing you know there there is a there's a sea change happening in our industry where uh baby boomers are starting to phase out and you have this next generation of let's call them late 20s to early 40s agency owners and they've grown up in an era where video and marketing and video on social media Etc has been a big part of their life and and have grown up in an age when that's been accessible so I think that now more than ever uh if they're willing to adopt what you've said uh and and what you teach in your video course which guys if you go to uh stev Stockman docomo page you'll see bam there's the video course you can sign up you can get two lessons for free I'll also have links in the show notes and everything um and then there's links to the book and and all that stuff as well I'll have links in the show notes for you guys but um I want to finish with a vertical video short form video because because this seems to be something I see a lot of people trying a lot of people do it in one of two ways they seem to just do raw talking into the thing maybe they put captions on it maybe they don't or um it's this very templatized every video looks almost exactly the same like usually there's like a a bar on the top with their logo and then their face will be wedged in the middle and then they'll have maybe captions and everyone looks exactly the same that seems to be the two versions I get neither one really seems to be working particularly well for anybody so what are your recommendations if you have any for a vertical short form that that kind of reels video that a lot of people are using well there's this is where it gets a little complicated ated so so let me see if I can pick it apart one of the reasons that short form video works like reals or uh Tik Tock or um some of the other short form stuff that goes up is because the people who are doing them are great on camera and I can't emphasize enough that if you are not great on camera do not appear on camera and the flip side of that is if you have somebody in your agency who is great on camera make them your spokes person and put them on camera all the time amen and you'll know the difference because you'll look at them on camera and go wow she's terrific and that's your person right it doesn't take brain surgery to know that some people are good on camera and some people are not so that's a huge thing that people discount so regardless of the formatting around someone in a short form video if the person doing the talking is charismatic and interesting and talking about interesting things you will actually pay attention because they're just going to grab you right that's why why movie stars get so much money it's because they're charismatic interesting the the other thing about the other the other kind of option there are two other ways to to make a successful video like that one is if you happen to be capturing something something amazing like you have your camera out at the moment that your son catches a football uh thrown by the quarterback of the Detroit Lions during the playoff game and it lands in his lap and you happen to catch that that's going to be a great short video it's not repeatable but it's a great short video yeah right um and then the last thing is a lot of great short form video is still structured like a story so so um if you if you remember back in the olden days we had something called newspapers and in the back of the newspapers we had these things called comics and you could read these Comics every day and on Sundays and on The Daily Comics they had three panels they had the setup they had the um response and they had the punchline yep right and if you look at the really great funny TI Tok and short form videos they follow basic comic strip format they're they've got a hero and a setup and some kind of response and a great punchline at the end um or sometimes they'll have repeating punch lines because that's a thing you can do in video pretty easily yeah but they're set up like little stories so the question is always if if I have a charismatic SP spokesperson or not what story am I telling and what's the best way to get it out there and that's going to kind of guide you to to the answer on short form video Yeah guys because you got to give your audience something yeah I I I completely agree I I uh you know I I've been doing a lot of testing with reals and I did uh have you ever heard of 75 hard no yeah so it's just it's a mental toughness program it's put on by this guy by Annie forella and long story short discipline is not uh you know organization and discipline is not like my strong suit and I said in 2023 so one of the things I want to do is challenge myself to this 75 day thing and it's it's basically just seven things you don't necessarily want to do every day and you force yourself to do them to practice discipline okay so part of that is you have to work out twice a day one has to be outside so I made a commitment to show the workouts in a short form video just to show people hey at 42 one I can do this two that I am doing it and holding myself accountable to you the audience for doing this whatever okay well I used uh so I would record myself either working out or whatever I was doing and then I used um this app cap cap cut the app doesn't matter but it had like templates like story templates essentially set up and what I started to realize was so so over that time period I went from like 5,000 to 112,000 followers on Instagram which does me no good for business because most of them are following me for reasons that have nothing to do with what I actually do for a living but whatever what I found that was really interesting was I started to figure out the formatting of the templates that did really well and the formatting of the templates that did not so it was like simple things like how quickly the cuts moved as you said um was there a payoff at the end in terms of you know oftentimes it would be like a Morgan Freeman thing or you know some like inspirational quote or whatever being said over the top and um but the the what was being said and and how it hit the the amount of cuts uh simple things like was it just like gray text at the bottom is the captions or was it like these cool like the the word is highlighted in yellow and the rest of the words are white so it's capturing your attention or you know these things like really mattered in terms of whether you got a couple hundred views or maybe you got 100 thousand views on you know on some of these things and it was it was wild to see that and at first it was VE for me it was very random but over the course of the 75 days I really started to to pick up on uh and I and I I did not necessarily pick up on it to the depth that you're describing it here but I did start to see like there's a real difference and and you could think that the video quality or the the way I framed myself when I was doing whatever was perfect but if all these other pieces were not in place or didn't grab them right away like the ones that just had one image going for a long time obviously were the easiest to create because you didn't have to put all the cuts in but they all did not do the best by far I mean not even close that that rapid cut to a story that went along with the words almost always got exponentially more traction comments Etc than the ones that would just be words over the top of one exercise in an unbroken line yeah I think payoff is the key word I heard you say you know it's it's got to give the audience a laugh or an inspiration or a feeling or something that they can take away that's valuable to them um and I think when you hit that you probably did way better than when you didn't I think the rest of it is important but not first principles you know first principle is give the audience something that they will value from their point of view not something you go you should value this but it's more like oh I see I'm entertaining them I'm enlightening them I'm making them feel something I'm showing them a journey you know that's that's what we watch video for and you have to do that whether you're a marketing video or or a feature filmmaker yeah I love that Steve I I appreciate you coming on here and sharing this obviously we'll have links to your website to the video course to the book where else can people connect with you if they just want to follow along with your work where where are any other where any other places that people can get a hold of you or connect with you or see what you're doing you know I would go to the website Steve Stockman docomo and all that stuff and you can reach me with questions and comments and all that from there too so I would definitely start there i' love to hear from you so Steve appreciate your time man uh this is something that I know this episode's going to be incredibly valuable to to this audience and and to uh my industry and I just appreciate you uh sharing it with us thanks so much for having me all right buddy be good all right take it easy I'm going to [Music] shabo