How Woody Brown Learned to Avoid the Insurance Celebrity Trap

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Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the show. My name is Ryan Hanley, and I'm so glad that you are here with me. And today we have a guest who has a very interesting story. He's a former signed national touring rock musician turned insurance agent turned almost insurance celebrity. Yet he has this awesome moment where he steps back from that edge of doing the speaking scene and getting caught up in things that don't help grow his insurance agency.

And while you still see him out on social media, you'll still see him occasionally at events and stuff, he's grinding every day to grow his business. And at this time, and maybe it's because I'm personally struggling with this at different times, you know, it's so easy to fall into that insurance celebrity trap, and Woody Brown did not do it. And besides just being an absolutely tremendous guy, an amazing agent, and just someone who I enjoy being able to book an hour with and just talk to, we talk about some things that I think are really going to help anyone who finds themselves getting asked to do anything that isn't a priority to their business. This is a great episode. You're going to love it.

Woody's a tremendous guy. If you're unfamiliar with him, you will be enamored by him immediately. And while, you know, he's focused on his business, I'm sure that he would love to connect with you, and I encourage you to do so, and you get all that in this episode. But before we get to Woody, I want to talk real quick about something that's an announcement I had a few weeks ago that the inside, my membership community, it's free now. It's free for agents.

It's free for insurance professionals to come in, engage, watch the videos, follow along on the journey, share their own, share resources. The inside is now free. And I actually did an episode of the newsletter, my YouTube show that comes out weekly, where I describe why I did it. But the long story short is that community was always about helping people and keeping it behind a walled, a paywall was not doing that. So I encourage you to check out the inside.

You can subscribe to the email list so that when new episodes come out, you get notified. Go to RyanHanley.com forward slash insider. RyanHanley.com forward slash insider is where you begin. Again, all of it is free, so I'm not asking you to pay for anything. You can check it out.

I just wanted to let you know, the listeners of this show, that the inside is now available to you and the Facebook group is available to you. And if it's something you're interested, I encourage you to check it out. Otherwise, thank you for listening to this show. If you're listening for the first time and you're not subscribed and you love it, please subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. And let's get on to Woody Brown.

I feel like I haven't, I don't know, I haven't talked to you in like, it was like a long time, man. Well, that's, I think, because it hasn't been a long time. Or it has been a long time, maybe is what I meant to say. And, you know, and that's kind of part of the reason why I wanted to do this podcast with you, dude. I just, you know what I mean?

Like, you and I have always hit it off so well, and I love our conversations. And I've been doing stuff, and you've been doing stuff. And what better way to schedule a conversation with a friend than to record that, record it, and, you know, in case you say something cool. Yeah, man, I agree. I agree.

It's a good excuse to get it on the calendar and make it official, you know? Yeah. So what's up, man? I mean, what are you doing? Whew, man, you know, just living the insurance dream, dude.

I mean, gosh, I wish there was something like new and innovative to report here, but just kind of doing what I've been doing, you know? I do know, and that's what I've kind of seen just from, you know, obviously, we're connected in all the socials. So, and that's part of the reason why I was so, like, excited for our conversation, because if there's something that I have, if there's something that I've become more aware of now that I own my own agency, right? Like, now that I'm making these decisions, now that I'm looking at these things from, like, this is how I pay my bills standpoint, or will, I guess, since I haven't sold the policy yet, but will pay my bills. You know, I look at you, and I see somebody, and this is, you know, this is, just correct me where I'm wrong here, but, like, I feel like there were a couple years there, like, Agency Nation years, where you were, like, starting to come on the scene, and you were, you know, all over the socials, and that kind of stuff, and then, like, the last year, or maybe more, it feels like, not that you've pulled back, but, like, maybe, maybe that's a, maybe that's a fair assessment, you know, and just have gotten to the work of, like, growing and operating your agency, and I'm just interested in that, because I think so many people are chasing shiny objects, which is incredibly easy to do, and to a certain extent, it feels like you've been able to avoid some of that, and I'm, I'm just really interested in, in, in how, why, what, you know, all, all of everything I just, that really long preface with, like, nine questions in it, go.

Yeah, dude, completely fair assessment, and, and truthfully, like, a great observation, really, I mean, in, in one hand, you know, I, you know, I kind of feel, at times, like, sort of bad, because I don't kind of interact with all the friends, and that we've made over the years, starting, you know, with the, that first Agency Nation conference that I went to, you know, the, the Star Wars, GIF, or whatever you want to call it, you know, Agency Nation conference, made so many friends, and in a way, like, I think early on, it was super helpful to me, because I was new to the industry, it was great to, like, share ideas and stuff like that, but then what I found was, like you said, there's a lot of, like, shiny object stuff out there, there's, you know, different platforms, and different agency management systems, and different, like, widgets that you can use, and all this, almost to the point for me, who is a person that gets easily distracted anyway, I was noticing that, okay, you know, am I taking on too much of the, that kind of stuff, just as an agent, you know, like, am I, is it, I started noticing that, like, kind of being focused on that, the management of the agency piece really was something that was kind of just distracting me from the end goal, as, like, an agent, right, so I kind of had to pull back on that, and then in terms of just, like, the full-on interacting with agents and stuff, man, like, I started getting really in the weeds with, you know, putting out a lot of stuff on my own, whether that's video, or, you know, I started a podcast for fun last year, you know, that has nothing to do with insurance, and, you know, man, that takes a, and then just normal, you know, man, as a parent, at the ages our kids are, man, it's, like, every single second of the day is, is just used, and so I had to, in order to, like, do more, you know, make, you know, make more money, essentially sell more policies, I had to shave some time and attention in certain areas, and one of those was, like, you know, I don't know, the Twitter feed, and that kind of thing, so I've done this thing where, in the past, I would say, like, year, year and a half, maybe even closer to two, slowly but surely, kind of turning off notifications, and on the social platforms and stuff, so that I don't just get bogged down in that, because, you know, I'm a, I'm an ambitious dude, much like yourself, and I mean, dude, I do have a love for helping other people any way that I can, in terms of within our industry, but at some point, I just had to be, like, okay, like, selfishly, what is going to help me reach my family goals, our financial goals, quick, it's like, what, what path, what's the path of least resistance, basically, and ultimately, it was, you know, kind of backing off a little bit on that kind of end of things, because, you know, as much as I love on people, what kind of camera I use, or all that kind of stuff, or even just, like, sharing ideas, sometimes it just becomes, like, another job, you know, and I say that, like, in a way that I don't, I don't want to discourage people from reaching out, dude, I love meeting a random, like, this agent who lives in, I want to say, Louisiana, just reached out to me the other day, and it was just cool, you know, that we can connect from other states, and kind of bounce ideas off of one another, and so I dig that, I really do, and I definitely don't want to discourage anybody from doing that, it's just, I kind of see, from the outside, looking in, there's a lot of folks that, I don't know, man, I don't know, for me, it wasn't, it just, I had to take, I had to kind of, like, back off a little bit, and just concentrate on just kicking ass, dude, you know, I mean, like, I do, dude, I know, I, to be honest with you, a big part of why I want to talk to you is, because I'm, this is going to sound weird saying, but I mean it in, like, the purest sense, like, I'm proud of you for making that decision, because, you know, these are decisions, like, I'm starting to make in my own life, and you know, like, I am, like, a, I'm, like, a crackhead, when it comes to creating, and sharing, and distributing, connecting, and, like, I just, I can't help myself, and at the same time, I'm looking, you know, I've been creating a lot of stuff that doesn't have to do with Rogue right now, because I'm waiting for some paperwork stuff to come through, but, like, but it's the day that stuff comes through, and the day I'm, like, having a pointed carrier, and, and my license is good, and everything's ready to go, like, I am not gonna be able to do that stuff, not nearly as much, and, and, and, and it's that whole insurance celebrity thing, I was talking to someone who's a friend of mine that, that I, I really care about her success, and I said to her the other day, like, you are about to be catapulted into another level of insurance celebrity hood, because she's smart, and outgoing, and, and gets what's going on, and it's very easy to connect with her, and so people are, that's gonna happen, you know what I mean, people are gonna want to know what she has to say, and what she's, and all that, and I just, be very, very careful about becoming an insurance celebrity, because it is not all that it's cracked, don't get me wrong, there are certainly benefits, but those benefits come with absolute trade-offs, absolute trade-offs, and, and is, I'm trying to move out of that space, and to see you, and again, I want to get, for just for the audience who may not be, who may not know you yet, like, just some timetables, but, like, to see you kind of, you kind of walked up to that precipice of, like, if you kept going, and kept sharing, and creating, you would have become an insurance celebrity, and you stepped back, and I have so much respect for that, because you didn't, like, step back, and, like, go into a hole, you stepped back, and started, you know, kept building your agency, so in 20, Elevate 2017, which is the Star Wars gift conference, which I challenge any UMFers to do 57 gifts to open up a conference.

Literally one of the best presentations I've ever seen. I mean, that, I don't know if it's because I'm a Star Wars nerd, but, like, I was, like, instantly sold. I'm like, man, this guy, this guy gets it, man. Whatever he's about to tell me, hey, are we joining a cult? Whatever it is, I mean.

Oh, my God. But, so, where were you in your career, back in 2017, at that Elevate, and then, kind of, you know, right now, we'll be able to, kind of, do the math, but just give us the timetables a little bit, or maybe give us a timetable where you were in 2017, and then, at what point did you say, I don't want to go down this rabbit hole any further, I'm going to step back, just to give some people some context. Yeah, some context. So, like, 2017, I was still relatively green as an agent. I had a couple years under my belt.

I was, in a lot of ways, not necessarily doing anything that I would consider, like, innovative, really. Truly, I think that Elevate, and just, like, that time I had, you know, and then conversations, and all this kind of stuff, meeting people like Nick, and, like, Joey, and just Sydney, and then, like, seeing that, kind of, catapulted me into, like, hey, man, I'm creative. This is something that I want to add into my legacy as an insurance agent, and so, but I was still really green. You know, I mean, I have, like, let's see, so, 17, can I believe it or not, man, let's see. Yeah, so, like, a couple years.

I've been to, you know, other insurance conferences, and, you know, this was one of those that I was, like, this seems like something different, and it definitely was, so that was refreshing. So, that's, kind of, when I got the bug in to, kind of, make more of an impact, just on the local level, kind of, I mean, in Georgia, as something that is different, you know. I told this guy that I was talking to the other day, my ultimate goal was, when someone types in insurance in the state of Georgia, selfishly, I wanted it to be my face that they see, my voice that they hear, and then, you know, I wanted them to hear, see, read, and it's me, you know. So, I was trying to figure out ways to do that, and then one of them, of course, was just pumping out a ton of content. So, then, 20, I guess, 18, I decided to, you know, after being inspired by all of the insurance video, you know, folks, but ultimately, too, just like Casey Neistat, I decided, you know what, because I'm one of those people, man, I can say all day long, I need to get in shape, or I don't need that double cheeseburger, or whatever, and that's all great.

But, if I don't sign up for a race, you know, or I don't, you know, pay a ton of money to do something, like, it's, it's not, I don't have the same rate of success, right? So, I have to come up with something relatively crazy and lofty, and then declare it publicly, so that I, you know, at the end of the day, I'm going to embarrass myself and look like a turd, if I don't complete it, because I already told everybody I was going to do it. So, that's what I did in 2018. I basically said, hey, every single day this year, I'm going to do a daily vlog. And one of the reasons I wanted to do that was to, like, push myself to be able to edit and complete things faster, so that once I knew that that was, that daily vlog was over, I'd be able to just, like, knock out things, videos, super, super quick.

And then I, you know, just wanted to get better at it, better at the storytelling, just having to create, I want, I don't, you know, it sounds bad to say something out of nothing, but I mean, a story every single day, that is at least somewhat entertaining or creative, it meant it was, it's hard, you know, I mean, it's quite a task. But, so, after doing all that, and taking the time to do it, you know, of course, I started, you know, being asked to speak at certain things. And I've, I'm the kind of guy, and I think, Ryan, you're the, you're, I think a lot of our close agent friends are like this as well. I think that's probably one of the reasons why we all get along so well. I end up saying yes to a lot of stuff.

And because I'm creative, I always have, like, all these cool ideas of how to make X, Y, and Z better. And, like, oh, yeah, I can do that. And then maybe I have, like, too much confidence in a lot of ways. But I say yes to a lot of things. And then because of that, a lot of things end up suffering a little bit, you know.

So, after a while, I started realizing, well, I started kind of getting into that zone of, quote, unquote, insurance celebrity. And really, man, it came down to one thing, like, I had to ask myself, hey, man, is this my ultimate goal? Do I want to, because if it is, I mean, I can public speak, I, you know, some of the, one of the carriers that we represent, sometimes, you know, asks me to come and speak in different states. So, I know I can do it. And I like a crowd.

And I like that energy, you know, as a former lead singer of a rock band, right? I mean, I feed off of that. It's like my, I don't know, it's the best, right? So, obviously, like, I started liking that. But then I had to ask myself, okay, is this what I want to do?

This is my ultimate goal? What is the longevity of something like this? And I just kind of figured out that, for me, it wasn't necessarily the route that I wanted to take. You know, like I said before, don't get me wrong, dude, I freaking love attention. You know, I walk into a mortgage office, I love it.

You know, I walk in front of a crowd, I love it. But I just knew that, like, it just wasn't what my ultimate goal was. Now, there's a lot of folks that are out there that I think maybe that might be their ultimate goal. And that's awesome, man. Like, hopefully, I don't think, because I think here's the danger, truthfully, like, I've been thinking about this for a couple weeks, man, because like, the hardest part is feeling, you know, not having that attention, not having that, you know, spotlight in any way.

And really, like, over the years, I haven't really changed much of what I've done in terms of pushing out content and being present online in terms of, like, my audience. And I think that's the big thing, too, man. I started realizing, too, that there's a lot of folks that are making content. But I started realizing that the audience wasn't necessarily who's going to be putting food on the table for them right now. And so when I started figuring that out for myself, I thought, you know, like, I'm, am I making videos or content for other insurance agents?

Or am I making this for somebody who is going to ask me to look at their stuff? Because a they like me, or they think I'm goofy, or I know what I'm talking about. And or no one else is doing right. So that is the direction that I took. And then because of that, man, I mean, it sounds relatively cliche, but I've just been I've been so busy because of that, like reaping those rewards, and managing my current book of business, but then just having lofty goals of growing it and stuff.

It's, you know, it takes a lot out of that. So I knew that the smartest decision for me, for now, was to take the path of, and then you're an insurance agent. You know, push hard on the on the audience that you're going after in terms of your target. Like, I think that's the thing, like, I had to re kind of focus my target. Not that I don't, I don't really necessarily believe that I was ever really making a lot of stuff for the insurance community.

I think it's just, you know, it was a little, you know, different new, hey, who's this guy? You know, videos are getting cool or whatever. And so I got a lot of attention for that. And then, you know, more folks started, I guess, doing video and stuff. You know, I like to think of myself as maybe the 21st person to watch in 2020.

You know, maybe 25th. I'll take a couple slots down. But you know, like, that kind of thing, man, you know, like, do I take that sort of stuff personally? I mean, dude, I'm a competitive person, right? So initially, I'm just like, hey, bro, why am I not on the list, guys?

Hey, you know, but I don't take it personally, because you know what, man, like, like I said, man, the past couple years, my I've had my head down, just working. And so if I'm not creating, I'm, you know, I hope that you won't take it personally, because there's easily because so that was not a ranking. First of all, for everyone listening at home, that was not a ranking. That was Cass and I just coming up with some names and people we just wanted. Let me back up on that.

I know you're not giving me a hard time. But I think this is important conversation because I for a different reason for different reason, because, you know, one, I know, you know, that I you know, it's not personal, whatever. And yeah, and it's more just like, like, I'll be honest with you, like, I have mentioned your name before, there are people on there I never talked about before that was part of it. And I wanted to get some fresh, some fresh, there were some there were some names people had said before, but like, there were some fresh names too. And I actually think we're going to do like, another because it's just about connecting people.

That was all about was like, that's why I did the whole thing with like, go to my page and connect on LinkedIn, so that you can connect with all these people, because I think I just wanted people bouncing off each other. I also like that that makes you that makes you look competitive, maybe you'll actually work now, you know, sure. Yeah, exactly, man. It makes me kind of like, it makes me like, look, I'm giving you a hard time. I thought that would be kind of funny.

But like, you know, it one thing I love about the industry, and what I love to celebrate, man, is if we especially, no offense to the captives that are listening, but especially on the independent side, let me break this down to me, because there's some captive agent on a Facebook group yesterday that was trying to, it was just funny. But in my opinion, and again, this is coming from outside of the agency, there's a lot of things that attract me toward the independent channel. And one of them is man, you're just automatically born an underdog, right? Yeah, because you don't have this multi billion with a B dollar marketing. This has been around for so long backing you up, right?

You don't just like show up on day one, you're wearing your red stuff. And then that's it, right? We don't get that luxury. And so because of that, like, I feel like as a group of agents, and then to include the captives for sure, but like as independent agents, like if one of us does awesome, then it just helps build the brand of independent agents, man. And so like, I love it.

It fires me up. I will say, for me, another thing that made me kind of like back off man was like, for me to, so one of the other things I did was I started learning from people outside of the industry. Yeah, started seeking those people out because I wanted to be, you know, superly like, we're just well rounded in the, you know, business type concepts. And then to like, you know, it becomes harder and harder to like, find the folks not, there's a, I got a sensitive here, because I don't want it to sound like I'm saying these people do not exist in the industry or anything. But I'm, what I'm trying to say is like, I wanted to be, quote unquote, mentored by folks that I felt like I had things to learn from it.

Now, again, it sounds like I'm being a complete, no, I think, I think, look at Woody. If people have listened to my show for any period of time, they've been offended enough that that doesn't even come close to the bar of offending them. So I think everyone completely understands where you're coming from. And dude, look, one of my, one of my best friends and mentors, um, I'm going to talk about him all the time is a guy by the name of Marcus Sheridan, right? Like he's run to him, but he has nothing to do with the insurance industry.

I mean, he's spoke at events, but he doesn't know a policy form from a, from an accord form. You know what I mean? Like he has no idea. That was so nerdy. I'm sorry.

That was, that was, you know, he has no idea. And I talked to him all the time. Another one of my good buddies who pushes me constantly is a guy by the name of Matt Davison out. He owns his own PR firm in Buffalo, New York. He doesn't know anything about insurance.

And I, I constantly am calling him and asking him for feedback because I think you're a hundred percent on pace. Um, another guy who's a great example of this is Jeff Roy, Jeff Roy, um, up in Canada. He, he, he takes more inputs from outside our industry and, and brings them into the industry than anybody I know. Like he's constantly reaching into other spaces, find the best of what they have and bring them in. And, and I, dude, I think it's a testament to you trying to be the best you can.

I don't think it's a knock on our space. Yeah. And I hope too, that anyone listening doesn't think that I think that I can't learn anything from them. I definitely didn't mean that dude. I literally live my life in a way that, that I truly believe that I can learn something from everyone.

And so I don't, I don't mean that. I just mean that if I had to like distill it down to, you know, Hey, can I learn how to again, where I'm going to go back to star Wars here? If I could, can I learn how to be a Jedi, but just like walking, uh, in and hanging out with Luke Skywalker? Yeah, sure. Like old school Luke Skywalker.

Uh, can I learn, but should I like seek out Yoda? Right. Like the level there of, of mastery is, is just different. Right. So that's kind of like what, and plus man, I like to think just like Jeff and like all these, I'll be there.

Cause there's so many people in the industry that are just so innovative, dude. They just blow my mind, man. Uh, uh, and of course, like my mind's going completely Seth, uh, Jeff Roy. I mean, all these people that are doing frankly, amazing things for the industry while simultaneously just killing it for the, you know, for their business as well. It's just fascinating to me.

Um, I just, you know, I guess this is probably the longest winded way to say, like, I just had to kind of like, yeah, man, just concentrate selfishly on being better at what I do. Um, and, and focusing on that. I mean, you know, my, uh, you know, super blessed that my wife is now a stay at home mom. And you know, that is also one of the things that went on. It's like, man, I don't, you know, Hey babe, I know you want to, you know, not work at your job anymore.

Cause you know, you're not super passionate about it. You want to be a stay at home mom. I've got to go, uh, you know, meet with X, Y, Z insurance agent and teach him how to make a video. I'm going to do this free speaking gig for a carrier and, and yeah, right. Exactly.

And so it's kind of like, once you get to a certain thing, you got to know your worth too, you know? And I just feel like my time. And when I say time, I don't just mean with money making activities. And I know, you know, you know, that I mean like my time away from the family is it's the most expensive time, you know? And so in order for me to make that sacrifice, it absolutely has to be worthwhile.

And my love for the industry, 100% doesn't trump my love for my family, you know? So there's no doubt about that. There's no doubt. I, you know, I felt it it's wild. So, you know, you know, I used to travel like three, three, three, three weeks a month for a long time for, for a lot of my, especially my older son's life.

And when I, when I stepped away from the industry for that period of time, that was because I couldn't get on air. Like my wife literally said, like, I have to be home for, for, for a bunch of reasons. And, um, and, and so I didn't get on an airplane from March of 2019 until last week at IOA. So it's the longest time on probably almost a decade that I haven't flown, uh, flown away, flown away from my family. We we've taken a couple of trips together.

Um, and it was wild. Like it ha you know, having spent all that time every day, like there was part of me that, you know, it always feels good to get a little bit of like, I'm just, you know, if I want to go sit over here, do that for, listen to, you know what I mean? Like no one's like dad, dad, dad, dad, dad, dad. If you just want to go to the bathroom for a second. Yeah.

Like guys, can't I just, the door is closed. Like, come on. Yeah. Um, like that felt good for like a minute. And then all of a sudden I was like, shit, man, I miss, I miss my crew.

Like, like in, in that's a big part of why I started rogue was I wanted to own my own destiny. Like I never wanted anyone to tell me I had to get on an airplane. Right. And I'm not saying I was ever like, you know, I was never like, yeah, yeah. But you know, there's obligations.

Like if you, you know, there's, there's obligations that you have to come to. And I never wanted that to be the case. So it was just wild. Like you said, nothing's more valuable than your family time. I think that feels like a big part of it.

Like it's so easy to lose that, especially when you have been cooped up or, you know, cooped up with poor choice words, but when you have been home and you haven't, no one's wanted you, no one's ever wanted you to travel to them and talk before. And now all of a sudden they do. And then you get on, you get out in the airplane system and you're walking around the airport to do whatever the hell you want. You can eat whatever you want. Oh, I want a beer at two o'clock in the afternoon on a Tuesday.

Sure. I'm speaking. Why not? Right. Like it sounds so crazy, but like, you know, that freedom, it is, it is tough.

So, so my question for you is, and Oh, I want to just clarify everyone. You mentioned Nick, Joey, and Sydney before, for those listening at home, that is Nick Ayers, Joey Giangola and Sydney Rowe. Sorry, I'm taking notes. So I'm interested in, I'm really interested in do, cause I think, I think this is something that people struggle with more than they talk about because any agent, anyone involved in our ecosystem who starts to do something new and not wrongly. So people start to reach out to them.

Right. And it's cool. It's great. Like I I'm, I'm happy that our industry has gotten to the point where we're so willing to share. That's great.

I think a lot of people struggle with this and I'm super interested in like, as much as you can describe, like the moment you knew, like you've, you've talked about it at a high level, but like, what was that moment? Was there an, it was there a something happened and event you came home from, uh, you know, uh, uh, soccer game you missed or whatever that like, you're just like, you know what? I have to do this. Like, what was there a turning moment that you can really pin this on? And, you know, so I'm also super fortunate in that, like a mentor that I have, uh, extremely close by is Clayton Rhodes, the, the owner of the agency, you know, we were buddies in college.

She's actually younger than me. So it's, you know, kind of weird sometimes having like a younger boss. Um, but he, dude, he is one of those guys that can like approach a situation with like almost no, like he can put aside like an emotional tie. Right. So if I come to him and I, cause I'm also a person that like, I like to assess, um, my progress.

And, and, and so like, I, if I find myself like not being happy with whatever X, Y, Z result is to say, okay, let's figure out like what, what's going on that, that can make that result be closer to the goal. And so he's a great person to like go to. And so multiple times a year, this happens, but you know, probably pretty close to like November of one of those years in the past, I kind of, that's generally whenever I'm planning for the next year. And I like asked him out of lunch, started, you know, kind of talking about, I'm like, you know, man, like what, what, you know, what do you think about all this kind of stuff? And like, I'm kind of frustrated because my growth isn't as fast as I want it to be in terms of, you know, policy count or whatever, what are some of the things?

And so he just kind of like pointed me back in the direction of kind of looking inward and kind of thinking about all the activities, you know, that you're doing and figure out which ones get you to that goal and which ones distract you from that goal. Ultimately is that word distraction that like at first it kind of pissed me off because I'm like, hey man, you know, internally, I'm like, you know, I got defensive internally, right? Like I'm not being distracted, you know, I'm still successful. I'm still in, you know, top agents and in the agency and then for our carriers, like, and then I started thinking about it, you know, I kind of took a breath, took a beat and started thinking like, and damn it, he's right. Right.

So like, what are like, if you as simplistic as you can like boil down, you got to figure out what your goals are. And my goal was, dude, I wanted to be the, the, I guess the ideal versus goal. The ideal is just to be like the most successful intervention of all time. But like backing that down, it's like, I really just want to grow on a, you know, really consistent basis year over year in, in such a way that like I'm setting myself and my, our family up for just a really awesome future, you know, whatever that, that means and whatever that entails for everyone. But that's kind of like what my goal is.

And then I want to kind of dissected everything that I was doing, even just like, Hey man, do I need to go to that networking meeting? Does that like, let me break it down. Let me break that data down. Is it, is there, what, what value am I getting out of that? Not just like, you know, Hey man, how many leads did you get from that video?

I, you know, we can dive into that if you want. And it's a pet peeve, but like, like not just in terms of the money-making activity, but what value, what was everything, what were the values of all that? You know, do I enjoy speaking? Absolutely. Can I make that, can I kind of back off of that a little bit and do that?

So really it was just kind of like that sort of talk. It was the trigger for me to start looking inward and looking inward hard because it was sort of like a, I was bitching in a way about like not being happy about my results that year. And it was, you know, like, Hey, and well, I mean, obviously it's stuff that we've all heard from every and read in every sales book ever, but like look inward, what are the activities that you're doing? Have that, you know, what can you do differently there? What's distracting you from making it to your goal?

You know, nothing changes if nothing changes. Right. Right, man. And so, um, you know, I guess like the ultimate unfortunate sort of side effect of all that is, you know, I don't think it's hurt the relationships that I have because man, for whatever reason, the, the sort of, especially the core tight knit group of, you know, call it the 5am club or whatever, man, I think we're friends, brothers, sisters, sisters, life. You know, I don't think, I don't think unless, you know, they got insulted by anything that I've said today thus far.

I don't think there's anything that's going to like change that. Now we just don't speak as often, but sometimes I take that as man, that's awesome. Because I feel like they're probably busy doing it. You know, it's that old thing that my dad used to say, you can either be, you can, you can, Oh man, what did you say? It's like, basically like, you can tell everybody you're the best or you can just like be the best, you know?

So if you're too busy talking about how you're the best, then, you know, you're probably, you might not be the best, you know? Yeah. Um, I'm, I'm completely with you on that. I would, I echo your 5am club thing. Um, I've, I've kind of gotten off of Twitter a little bit and certainly off of Instagram a lot.

Um, because they were two places that were taking up a lot of my time that wasn't producing results for me. You know what I mean? Like for me, I make my money up until rogue launches, you know, it was, it was consulting and speaking gigs and mostly speaking gigs. And those came from Facebook and LinkedIn. That was it.

So I had to make those choices. And then once rogue launches, that'll come down. And dude, I think, you know, I think to your point, um, and this is, you know, I think this is, you know, where on this topic, I'd like to cut this because I have some other questions for you. And I think we've made it up quite a bit, but your point that like, once you make a real connection with somebody, a real connection, you could not see them for five years. It doesn't matter.

The next time you see them is going to be, if you saw them yesterday. And I feel that way very much with people in the 5am club, I think we came together at a time when all of us, for whatever reason, just needed that venue. Like for just whatever reason, that group of 20, 30 people, however many people it is, um, it would just, everyone seemed to need each other and for all different reasons. And, and everyone gave to that group of people. And even though, you know, different people have kind of come and gone and other people, you know, some people don't contribute as much, myself included.

Like, I see, you know, I saw, I saw Carrie Reynolds, who I haven't really communicated with that, with, with that much for no other reason than I just have been doing other things. Saw her at IOA. It was big hug. How are you doing? What's going on?

I mean, it was, it was great. And like, same thing with Crowley, same thing with, you know, whoever. So, man, I think, I think you're right on the button. And to be honest with you, I think when people see you grinding and doing what you need to do to take care of the things you need to take care of, I don't, I, they respect you more for that than if you're showing up, like no one wants you to show up and then be paying a price on the back end for showing up. Cause that, that defeats the purpose.

Right. So, um, so yeah, man, I think you're, I think you're right on the button and I'm just happy to hear that. So, you know, I want to be respectful of your time cause you are an operating agent, you know, world dominating, um, in the fullest extent, but I do, but you know, just to kind of hear kind of quick hitter session, like what kind of stuff is working for you, man, for the people that are listening, like, you know, you, what kind of stuff are you doing? Like, what does your day to day look like? Like grinding on it?

You know what I mean? Like, what kind of stuff is going to happen? For sure, man. So, um, man, one of the things that I think has really, really just been amazing is that weekly Facebook video show, man, Ask Woody Wednesday, you wouldn't believe like it either entices people that I haven't heard from it in forever, uh, to reach out or people will share it with their audience, their page basically. And so like their friends will reach out.

Um, it's, it's been a huge, huge piece of it all. Um, I mean, looking over, like I track everything from, um, you know, where, where referrals coming from and I mean, just a large majority, you know, and it took time. That's the thing I think that happens out there, man, in the, in the, in the world of insurance and stuff, whether it's, um, Instagram or Facebook or YouTube or anything a year, 12 months is not enough time for it to build the foundation of, of, you know, I'm just now seeing the Holy crap. My inbox is literally full of referrals. And it's like, where'd you find this Facebook?

Ask Woody Wednesday, you know, like it's just now starting to get to that point where she's like, you know? Um, but in addition to that, like sort of new, new school stuff, you know, one of my favorite things, um, in the concept that you, uh, kind of talked about not too long ago is the brackish water, man. Like as much as I am a proponent of video and technology, just because it's such an easy way to get out in front of people. Like I still love the old school face-to-face showing up. And so like, I've been really concentrating on developing a new relationship or having a coffee, uh, at least once a week with somebody new.

And then same thing with, uh, kind of just like rekindling or just like maintaining a current relationship, um, once a week. And so that pushes me to, again, like if you think of it, it sounds like, um, one new person a week, that's, that's not a lot, but if you think about it, man, it's like, it, you know, when you put yourself out there like that, sometimes it kind of, you got to dig deep and you have to force yourself to meet somebody new and one per week, I have 52 new people in a year, man, that you're going to see, you're going to see a lift there. Right. So that kind of stuff, getting back out there face-to-face and again, assessing what relationships are working and really designing. Here's the thing.

And here's another thing that I've kind of like come to the conclusion of after six years in the industry, you have to rub shoulders with people. You have to be in the same room with them. But I think like, for me, what I figured out was I was forcing myself to be like super nice to, you know, a mortgage person that was ultimately like the biggest douche of all time. Right. But I'm like, well, I mean, I can get a referral from them.

So I was like early on, you don't have necessarily the luxury to kind of design who you're being around necessarily. Like you do a couple of years in, but I started figuring out like, man, what if I approach it like this? What if I approach it in terms of like, I'm not like huge way after late after hours kind of guy, you know, I'm not going to have like seven or eight whiskeys and then just, you know, start over like I'm past that part of my life. And so I don't necessarily want to focus on those kind of activities. So I started like coming up with these ideas of sort of, again, designing the interaction, the networking atmosphere based on my interests and then finding people that had similar interests.

So then now I don't have to force a relationship. We're already like, it's way better to work with and or alongside people that you would consider friends. It just makes it so much easier. You know, like I'm not going to force somebody that has never seen Star Wars, doesn't like that genre, like as floor seats, you know, to the Atlanta Hawks or whatever. I'm not going to be like, Hey man, I don't know if you're interested, but I got an extra ticket to IMAX for the new Star Wars movie.

They don't give a shit. But if I can find somebody that does, now we're like connecting on that level. We're able to like, Hey man, we're actually like quote unquote working, but we're watching Star Wars or Hey, you like the Braves too. We're at the Braves game to get, you know, like doing it in a way that, and it's probably like everybody listening for like, duh, we've been doing that forever. But for me personally, it was a big eyeopening revelation really, because I was forcing myself and putting myself outside of like my normal personality and forcing myself to kind of like work with people that, you know, I just pulled it down.

Hey, is this somebody that I would like actually hang out with outside of a professional need to, you know, I think you're a dude. I think, I think what you said, you know, you're designing the activities for like the life in the person that you are versus what you've, what maybe people think you should do or, or is the common thought, dude, I think that's an, I think that's an incredibly important thought that I think most people get that wrong. And myself included, like, um, that is, I feel like as I've matured into business, this has been one of the hardest lessons for me to learn, because you read some article and you're like, Oh, that that sounds dope. Like, I'm gonna go do that. And it, but it's not you, you know what I mean?

It's not, it's not who you are. Like, um, and, and, and, and then it then you get friction. And then you're like, well, this should be working. Or, you know, how come this works for these three people doesn't work for me, because it's not who you are. And the fact that you've been had the self awareness, which I think is really the key to a lot of what our conversation is today is that you've, you have self awareness.

And, um, you know, when I, if, if, if you could go, it's not the same podcast feed, but if you put up the show that I did for agency nation, you can listen to when I interviewed Woody the first time talking about your, your career is a musician. Um, you adding, I think self awareness was an incredibly important part of your career there and the moves that you made in the move coming to insurance, understanding who you wanted to be as a dad, as a husband, that kind of stuff. Like, you know what I mean? I think your self awareness, and you probably don't see this. It's super power for you.

Most likely if you were to stack up your superpowers, it would definitely be on that list. Cause you know, I just hear you talking and I'm going this, this dude, you know, Woody, Woody's looking at himself at a level that I don't know most people go to. And it is a huge part of your success. And, uh, it's an incredible lesson for anyone listening. Well, I appreciate it, man.

I just, you know, I, in all the different things that I've done, I've always been, I always tip my stride or I've always hit my stride when I am the, like when I'm maxing out the, Hey, this is like myself Woody. Right. So like when you start music, the first songs you write back in the day, I did, I was a huge Oasis fan. I sounded like being Liam Gallagher. Right.

So my songs sounded like that and they're good, but they weren't me. And then same with the band. It's like those songs that I wrote sort of sounded like stuff that I was influenced by, but the best songs that I ever wrote or the best that I ever sang or whatever it was when I was being myself. And I think that like, you know, we all kind of wear, we're all kind of guarded some way. Right.

We want people to say, Oh man, I want them to make sure I want them to feel like I'm professional. And, um, you know, I don't know, man, I just feel like coming into the industry. I, in my head, I wanted to be myself, but in a way, you know, you kind of mimic those that you're around and, you know, um, it really hasn't been until like, I'm just fully who I am that I feel like that's when I've started to hit my stride. And I feel like, man, thinking about all of the friends that we have. And I mean, I could just, I wish I could just list them all right now, but if they're listening, they know exactly who they are.

Every single one of those people, people as they become more and more themselves in the industry, I feel like, I feel like in a way, man, like if I rewind it all the way back to that first agency nation thing, I feel like that's kind of like the moment that I was like, and that's what, that was the turning point for me. And I think for a lot of those folks is like, we slowly, but surely started like understanding, like we as individuals are our superpower. We're in this industry, just like everybody else that's in any industry where it's just flooded with people. And if we all act the same, there's nothing that sets us apart. So if we have this magical thing as individual humans, man, that like, we're all different in a lot of ways.

And if we're okay with that, and you're confident enough being yourself, then you can absolutely use it as your ultimate superpower. And then that's kind of what I've done with things like video and all this. It's like, I want people to see who I am because frankly, you know, I'm proud of that. And am I going to make everybody happy? Is everyone going to love me?

No, but you know, I'm also not a butthole. So a lot of people will like me, you know, I mean, and cause I think sometimes too, man, some of the feedback or some of the questions I get sometimes from folks that aren't necessarily as lucky as I am in terms of like the agency that they work for, you know, they say like, man, you know, like one of those videos, dude, you have like a crazy, like brave starter jacket on. I just, you know, who's your target audience? I mean, you know, when I tell them like my old, my target audience is like luxury and, you know, high net worth people, their immediate thought is like, well, how are they going to take you seriously if you're in a brave thing? You know what I mean?

And so they're like, are you like, so I'm not sure if I'm supposed to wear a tuxedo when I do these videos, but the bottom line is like, I feel like, Hey man, it's myself, you know, like if they're going to, they're going to connect with me on some level, whenever they're watching that video, whenever they do, or they're not. And if they're not because of that video or maybe they don't have a Facebook account, guess what, man? That's not the only outlet that I'm going after. Like I think of the career and business, like the game of risk, man. I am posting up in Australia.

If you're listening, by the way, this is what you should do. Posting up in Australia. And if you don't know about risk, you're super confused right now, but it's okay. But I'm like putting all my little soldiers in one spot. And at the same time, I'm putting them all over the map so that ultimately dude, I can conquer that whole globe.

But you have to do that. You have to kind of like be attacking in different directions. You know what I mean? So it's not just Facebook video, you know, it's not just YouTube videos. It's doing a lot of things.

And that's what's, you know, going back to the first question. And that's what's, that's what's taking the time. It's just, you know, doing all of that takes energy, time. And yeah, so. Dude, it has been such a pleasure.

Dude, I just love when we get a chance to talk. I'm so happy for you. Just like watching from afar, because like, I could tell things were going well. You know what I mean? Like I could tell that you were starting to find your stride and that, and, and I was, um, proud is the wrong word.

Cause it sounds like, like, um, you know, more just watching from afar. I was like, I'm happy. I was happy for you that it seems like you're in a really good place. You're cooking. I know how competitive you are.

I know the quality work you do. And, uh, and it was just, it's just been great, man. And, uh, and like we started, like you and I haven't talked in a while, but this is freaking tremendous. And, uh, I'm so glad we had a chance to connect and, and that we could talk through some of this stuff. And, um, I'm sure, I'm sure now either no one's going to reach out to you because they think that you're like super standoff rich and cold.

Or they're going to be like, no, no, man, come speak at my thing. Yeah, no, man. Like reach out to me, please. I just know that like, if I don't reach out first kind of thing, it's because like, I'm really trying to, you know, stay on task here, but reach out to me. It's that, you know, old friends, new friends, people that have any questions that I'm always willing to have like a, I can copy and paste.

If you have a question about what gear I use and all that, man, I, uh, I'm happy to, to help in any way, man. And, uh, you know, hopefully if they didn't get bored by my voice this far, man, hopefully they know that, uh, I'm happy for all everybody's success. And like I said before, our success is, is our success together, man. Um, you know, rising tides, uh, raise a ship or whatever the saying is. So, and then two, man, two things, one, thank you for inviting me to be on this podcast, dude.

And then, um, also, man, like, just thank you for all that you contribute to the, to the, uh, the industry, dude. I mean, you're, you have been and are a huge inspiration to me. You've always been kind of like a mentor from afar. Um, and I do, I mean, I, I really appreciate, um, you know, I've, I've been lucky enough to have a burger and a beer with you, man. And, um, it means a lot and, and, uh, I'm excited for you too, man.

I mean, and also what a rad, rad name. I mean, you son of a gun. As soon as I saw that, I was like, that son of a gun, man, that's a badass name. Dang. I couldn't believe New York state approved it.

I was so pumped. Uh, yeah. Uh, thanks. I appreciate that. And, uh, well, you know that I, I, I, I do this only because partially because I have a problem and partially just because like me and peeps like you and spending time and having that, that's what I love that.

I mean, this is my favorite thing. So like, um, it's just been great. So, hey, bro, let's, uh, let's get out of here. I want to get you your time back. There are, there are people that need to be sold insurance by Woody Brown.

So let's, let's get about here. Thanks for everyone listening at home. I love you for listening. Much love, man. Talk to you soon, dude.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Close twice as many deals by this time next week. Sound impossible.

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