Why Every Entrepreneur Needs to Be Broken Once

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That's R-U-B-R-I-K.com. Hey, guys. Th- the end of this video is a little awkward. We didn't realize it at the time, but the last, like, five or six minutes of Selah's audio cuts out, and we don't have video or audio. So the ending will be a little abrupt, but there is an incredible amount of value in this, uh, conversation, and we're gonna have Selah back on the show 'cause, as we mentioned, we didn't even get to the topic that I really wanted to address with Selah, which is personal branding in particular.

So enjoy this episode. It is high-powered. It is absolutely incredible. Selah is wonderful. She's one of my favorite people in the world, and I'm so incredibly excited to share her with you guys.

So enjoy the show. I apologize for the awkward ending, and as always, I love you. In a crude laboratory in the basement of his home. We started the conversation, and then we got, like, into life stuff. So, like, at the- So we get to, so we get to, like, almost the end, and he's like, "Do you have a couple extra minutes?"

He's like, "I really wanna know about Master of the Close because what I... You know, I wanna-" No. "... I'm interested in how we can roll it out." And I was like, "Ah."

I was like, "Hopefully you had, like, a little extra time aft- you know?" It's all good. 'Cause I was like, "Shit, I-" It's all good. Yeah. So, um- It's all good. We'll power talk.

But that's great- Yeah ... that you've been to Master of the Close. I'm so proud of you for how you rolled that out. Can you believe that just launched the last, like, few months ago? You worked on that for so long, and you sat on that. Like, you sat on that as, like, a silent sleeper.

I remember when I finally found that thing, I was like, "Ryan, what is this thing?" And you were like- I know ... "Oh, it's just, like, this incredible proprietary sales process I developed, and it's just sitting over here off to the side that could help millions of people." And then look at you, like, finally giving it to the world this year. I know.

I love it. Cheers to 2025. Yeah. Yeah. 2025 has already been a much better year than 2024.

2020- Good ... I'm, I am glad that, uh... I'm glad 2024 happened 'cause it was a good, it was a good life lesson on, um ... You know, like, I thought I had a lot of the mindset stuff figured out. Mm-hmm.

Like, I thought I had a lot of it figured out, and it, it... Figured out in air quotes, right? But, um- But 2024 kicked me on my ass, and you know. I mean, we talked ev- Yeah ... every week for, for how long? Yeah.

And, uh, and coming out of it and starting to kind of find my way again and, and, and prioritize properly and, you know, that kind of stuff, it was a good lesson that if you don't, if you don't continue to follow the path- Yeah ... how easy it is to fall off the path. Mm-hmm. And how important things like discipline, commitment, uh, surrounding yourself with good people, like, those kind of things, how important they are because when you detach yourself from, from those things, you, you, you, you lose the way really quick. And, um- Well, you had to fight to stay on that path, too, because- Yeah ... it was one thing to stay on it. It's another thing to realize you're in, in a pruning season.

I mean, I think that's what we talked about so many times is it was, "What do I hold onto? What do I let go of here?" And I watched you- Yeah ... literally, like, separate Siamese twins, you know, with your bare knuckle fingers of, "This is what I wanted, too, but this is now what I feel like I need to hold onto," and vice versa. "Look at this new thing now-" Yeah ... "that is, uh, emerging in this space."

And so '24 was shaping. It was pruning. It felt hard in our conversations, but I truly believe- Yeah ... even how you're expressing where you are at this moment, that it was a much-needed season, uh, just to, to prepare the ground for areas that you can really thrive in and that are ultimately, like, deep reflections of you, your brand, your story, and the work that you wanna bring into the world. Yeah. It, it's, um, it's funny.

Like, I almost feel like we need to get our ass kicked once in a while. Like, every once in a while. Maybe, like, once a decade. Maybe, like, once a decade just get your ass handed to you, you know? Just to, just to, like, remind yourself of, one, like, you're not gonna die.

You know what I mean? Like, you're, you're gonna be okay. And two, that, that... Like, today I feel very, very fulfilled getting Mas- I mean, and you were so instrumental in this. Like, getting Master of the Close out, getting the TED Talk done.

Like- Yep ... those two things in particular, like, reframing, um, what I wanted to be, how I wanted to, how I wanted to show up in the world. Like, it, it... I needed the pain of 2024 to today be able to sit here and feel very confident in what I'm doing every day- Mm. That's good ... how I live my life, what I want out of my life. Like, I think that I, I needed that reset.

I mean, it sucked. There's a big part of me that wished that, you know, it didn't happen, but I think at the same time, um, if, if you can, if you can continue through it, and, uh, and you were instrumental in that, um, it, it, it, it really, you can come out the other side a much, I think, much more satisfied- Mm ... person. I think what I'm trying to cultivate in my life today is... Satisfaction isn't the right word. Fulfillment, right?

That's good. How do I- Yeah ... how do I, how do I operate each day from a sense of fulfillment? And, and fulfillment, I think some people misunderstand fulfillment in so much as, like, they think it means conclusion, right? Mm.Getting through the day. Thing...

Here, here's a, here's a good example, and, and we talked about this a couple times. Like, and, and you actually even said this to me one time, and it was, it was a really good reminder. I can't remember when you said it, um, but I had a shitty, shitty week or whatever and, but I got, like, one thing done, and you were like, "That's the win." It's like, all right- Yeah ... last week sucked. Yeah.

But you got this- Yep ... one thing done, and yeah, was it your most productive week ever? No. You kinda did this, and you chased this rabbit, and blah, blah, but you did get this one thing done- ... and that's the win. So okay. It is.

Yep. That's, that's what it is. And, and, and, um, I think... So let's... I try to operate today with, like, okay, you don't have to optimize every minute of your day.

You don't have to have the perfect morning routine every day. You don't have to work out every single day. Like, it, it just, life happens, right? Sometimes, sometimes the win is being able to log out at 3:00 PM, pick up your kids from school, take them to the baseball game. Yep.

And maybe you didn't get as much work done as I would've liked, but I spent eight quality hours with my kids, watched them play sports or, you know, whatever, and got to hang out with them and, and, you know, and have a great, great evening. And, like, that's a win. That's a great day. And, uh, I think, you know, especially for people that are driven, um, that can be a particularly tough lesson. Well, I think we need some, like, Rocky background music right now, because I feel like every entrepreneur- ... who's listening to this is like, "This is my life right here."

I love how you said- Yeah ... you need to get a beat up every now and then. But then a... 'Cause that's what it feels like. It feels like a constant- Yeah ... juggling act of, you know, juggling priorities, focus, deadlines, cash flow, systems, scalable growth. I mean, it's, like, literally like a storm, a perfect storm at all times, especially if this is a business owner or an entrepreneur. And you can relate to that.

I mean, the, the success that you've had with Rogue Risk, you know, with the, with leading innovative companies like you do, with developing products, like Salesforce teams. I mean, just there is so much that you realize is a constant pressure point. And, and to your point, I do believe that resilience is what we're talking about, 'cause you've come through this stronger. And, like, that's why I'm like, we need some pump up Rocky music here. I feel like I've been able- Yeah. ... to kind of be, like, Mick here, you know, on the sides a little bit, like, "Hey, what's going on?"

Yeah. "Okay, send you back out there. You know, come on." Yeah, yeah. "Let's, let's dial back up.

Let's get our focus in. Now get back into the ring a little bit." And everyone needs something like that. They need someone in their life where they can be like, "Hold on, I'm actually winning, but this match is still going here a little bit," you know? And to your point, the win may be sometimes just surviving a little bit.

I don't wanna get too far into the boxing metaphor here but I think- Yeah, yeah ... at the end of the day, like you said, it's defining the win a little bit. And sometimes it's, you know, holding, holding s- uh, holding space, staying the course, you know, trusting the game plan. Other times, it's probably not being afraid to take the risk. I think that's something I've watched you do, is once you've acknowledged that you need to make a pivot or a change, you're like, "Let's go. Let's jump here."

And then equally, and this is what I love that you brought out in your TEDx talk, is that you are not afraid to be vulnerable and realize that what is the success I'm chasing, you know? And, and identifying it. Is it actually the success that defines me? Am I defining it, or am I letting status and the perceptions of society and what I think I should be doing and the expectations of others really model that success, you know? And at the end of the day, that is the unfulfilled life that you're talking about.

Um, I love this- Yeah ... quote that you said. I, I listened to your... I've listened so many times to your talk, but I gotta tell you, the quote that you talked about, the every day, millions of people go to jobs that they hate and pursue the, you know, the goals that they didn't choose because that's what they thought that they were supposed to do, I think rings so true, because all of us can relate to that on one way or another. We can be so- Yeah ... caught up drinking our own Kool-Aid or what we feel like our, you know, social media feed has fed us, or what we see, you know, the success of another, you know, business owner or another colleague doing, that we can realize we are chasing shiny objects all day long, and at the end of the day, we're gonna fall off a cliff, and we've gotta learn to do this better and do this right. I love how your story holds the space for both the ambition and the honesty to define success at a more authentic point.

Yeah. I, I, I, you know, and we've talked about it so many times, like, it, it... The biggest, the biggest unfulfilled moments in my life have been those moments when it was like, "I should be this," or, "People expect me to be this," or, you know, "My, my boss thinks that I should be doing this, even though I know that's not what we need." You know, but like these moments where you allow others to dictate your future. And, you know, this is one of the lessons that I'm trying to teach my kids as early as I possibly can, 'cause, you know, I didn't learn these lessons until my 30s, and, and, and that's fine.

That's, that's my journey. And, you know, I actually was just talking to them the other day because, uh, new, new baseball season, and again, uh, uh, people probably get, uh, uh, bored of me talking about my kids and their, and their baseball career, but I think it, it's, it's, it's, it's a really... It's a good, uh, microcosm for, for life, right? Sports are, I think, are a very good microcosm for life. And, and I oftentimes get a little frustrated when people are like, "Oh, not another sports analogy."

It's like, I'm sorry, like, sports, s- you can't hide in sports. Like, what I love early about sports, um, or about anything competitive, it doesn't have to be, like, a kind of baseball or whatever, it could be anything competitive, is that especially early in life, you can't hide. If you're just playing video games, if you're just doing school... And not that, uh, I don't necessarily have a problem with video games and, and, you know, I'm not a big fan of public education in our country, but I think that, uh, school, schools can be good. Um, you can hide in those places.

You can, you can, you can, you can, you can kinda not truly test yourself. But in, in particularly in sports that have an individual aspect to them, like baseball, if you're the pitcher or you're the hitter or there's a ground ball hit to you or something like that, you can't hide. You either make the play or you don't. You either hit the baseball or you don't. You throw the pitch that you need to throw or you don't, and everybody sees it, and there's no hiding, and that's scary as hell.

And, and, and, and what's been interesting, and, and this is where I wanted to- where just this comment is, uh, both of my kids, um, really love baseball. Uh, they both play at a fairly high competitive level. They both play on their, their respective travel teams for their ages. And, um, they, they both have started the season struggling hitting this year. They're just, you know, off to a slow start.

And, um, you know, they both have been frustrated, and I should be doing this, and, you know, I should be higher in the lineup and, you know. And they, and these are common frustrations that people have. And I just said to them, like, uh, you know, I, I, I do these little, uh... I'm, I'm sure that they're gonna have lots of therapy bills later in life because of these m- m- monologues that I give them while we're driving. But, um, I said to them, I said, "Guys, like, like, no one gets to dictate your future but you.

It's not- Mm. "Your coach doesn't get to dictate your future. I don't get to dictate your future. Your mother doesn't get to dictate. No one dictates your future- That's good.

That's good. Mm-hmm ... but you. If you, if you wanna be a better hitter, if that's important to you, and it doesn't matter to me if it's important to you or not, right?" And I've said this to them a million times, like, "I played baseball. I love coaching you guys in baseball 'cause I played and I love the sport.

But if you said you wanted to be tennis players or golfers or ballerinas, I would be there with you. Like, I honestly don't give a shit. I..." But I said, "You've both chosen this sport. Okay.

And you're struggling at this one particular skill. Okay. If you wanna be better, the only way for you to get better is you have to decide that you wanna be better and figure it the fuck out." Yeah. Like, go figure it out, right?

Like, I will help you. I will take you to hitting lessons. We can work on the side as much as you want. I mean, for a baseball dad, there is nothing that they want more in life for their kid to ask them to help them, right? I mean, that's just like, you know, ah.

And I... But I said to them, I go, "Guys, like, right now you're letting where you're hitting in the lineup or the umpire or, you know, you hit three balls at a shortstop and he made all three plays, and why, you know, why was he standing there?" You know, whatever, all these things that young kids say about the sport. And I was like, "You're letting these, these external things dictate your future to you. Like, did you approach that at-bat"...

And this goes for anything. It can go for a talk. It can go for being a leader. It can go for a sales call, whatever. "Did you approach that moment with the right mindset?

Did you approach it with 100% of yourself? Were you focused? And if you were, the outcome doesn't fucking matter. It doesn't ma- the outcome doesn't matter because- That's good ... you did everything you had to do, right? Everything else will figure itself out."

And maybe the coaches wants to have his kid and his kid's friends hitting one through five, and you hit six and that frustrates you and you can't crack. That's fine. Hit 500 from the six slot, right? Like, why are you letting an external factor dictate how you feel about yourself? And, um, and, and no one's ever perfect with that.

But it's like that lesson to me, that is like the most important thing, and it's why... 'Cause I've had a lot of people ask me, and we even talked about it. You asked me this question. Why this topic for this talk? Yeah. And it, and it, and it was...

I, I honestly believe that, you know, and I'm, and everyone who listens to the show knows that, uh, Christian, like, I honestly believe God put us on this earth, and it's to, to, to work towards becoming the best version of ourselves. Yeah. That's why he put us here. He, he, he put us here for the journey, for the effort, for the struggle. Like, I literally, the call I had, and I, I know I'm supposed to be interviewing you, but I'm doing all the talking.

Um, and guys- I love it ... just so you know, this is what Selah does to me. She gets me wound up, and I start talking. I love it. Um- I just let you go. Yeah.

Keep going, Ryan. I have tons of questions for you too, I promise. We're gonna get to it. But like, like, I was just had this call with a, with a, with a guy. Um, uh, we were talking a little bit about business, but as I told you and why we started the podcast late was we ended up talking about life a little bit.

And he shared this amazing story with me where, um, you know, he, he, he had had this injury and he was feeling lots of pain, and he was, uh, walking towards his church for Easter, Easter Sunday, and he just asked God and he said, you know, "Help me with this pain." And the pain- Mm ... started to go away. And, and he said, "You know, I don't know if it was God or not." And I said, "It was." And I said, "The reason is because you didn't turn around and go back to the car.

You could've turned around and gone back to the car and laid the seat down and put yourself in a comfortable position, but you didn't. You kept walking forward. You knew the pews in that church weren't gonna be comfortable for your back." Mm. "You kept walking forward.

And so, so, so the, the, the, the payoff to that was, right, your pain got reduced. Now, it doesn't mean... It didn't go away, right? It was still there, but it wasn't screaming because you passed the test, right? You didn't give up."

And, and I think that's such an important thing. Like, no one would've questioned you going back to the car, laying down and saying, "My back just hurt too bad." No one would've questioned that. But you kept moving forward, and I think that's, that's what we're here to do. Well, I think that...

L- let's, let's unpack that for a second further, 'cause you talked about that in your TED Talk with that first point you brought up, which was reframing fear as the catalyst for action. And I think that that's what you're- Yeah ... talking about here is you're, you're, you're realizing that we've got to strip back, you know, to our core what is driving us and reframing success. I think the analogy that you shared, the story you just shared with your sons and baseball is a great example because, again, we're looking at success through the lens of all the other factors in our lives that are telling us what the measure is, but that measure is such, it's such a fake. It's such a trap, you know? And I think that that is why I loved when we were working on your talk, and you were like, "Selah, I've got this idea of the status trap," and there's just such a word.

Like, that's a gripping thought. Like, I've asked myself, like, "Where, where have I been trapped in my life?" I'm like a person who would be afraid to be tr- trapped in something. Like, I'm the person who likes the- Yeah ... the aisle seat on the airplane. I'm like, I don't wanna be next to the window and not able to, like, jump out and get something when I want to and need to.

Like, I don't wanna be reliant on somebody, you know? I don't wanna be stuck in an elevator. I don't wanna be stuck with slow drivers. In fact, it's so funny. I gotta tell you.

The other day I was driving my kids to school- And we were driving, uh, past this, this, uh, this Catholic private school. It's kind of on our way to the kids' school, and there was this crosswalk, and this guy we know, um, he was riding his golf cart across the street from his subdivision, dropping off his kids at this Catholic school, and there was like a little cart path, and so he was able to take his golf cart. And here I am in like my minivan with all of our kids, right? And my kids are like, "Mom, don't hit him with the van." I was like, "What would make you think I would hit this man on this golf cart with our car?"

And then I realized I'm like a pretty aggressive driver. And our kids know, like buckle up, because like I don't wanna be stuck behind slow drivers. I don't wanna- Yeah ... be caught in something. And, and I think it's interesting when you really frame status, you know, not as a prize to be won, but as this thief that's going to rob, you know, the depth of who you are. I mean, I think for the right people who are listening to this, it's gonna cause a rise in you.

And that was your talk. Mm. That was your talk d- at the TEDx. It was a challenge talk. In fact, when I go back and listen to it again, and if someone is on this podcast listening right now and has not listened to it, you might as well just stop this interview now and go jump over and listen to Ryan's talk.

Yeah. It's on YouTube. Yeah. It's amazing because it, it's gonna challenge you at your core. And what it's gonna do is it's going to e- you're either gonna, you're gonna pause it because you can't belly up to the bar and you can't take the talk, and you're gonna say, "You know what?

I need to stick in the comfort places of life." And you know, with that, we wish you the best. Yeah. But if this hangs with you, you're gonna realize that this is gonna create a fear in me, 'cause I have to let go of the expectations of others. I have to allow the drive of who I am i, you know, in, in encapsulated in this kind of fear of, 'cause now I'm stepping into my own path, I'm stepping into my own definitions.

I will not be held constraint any longer by this, is it's gonna actually cause some fear in me, but it's gonna turn me into a place of action. And I think when you- Mm-hmm ... and I talked more about this, we realized, you know what, there are talks that are informational. There are talks that are, um, passionate. There are talks that are going to create, you know, um, change, you know, across society or in places of people's worldview and things of that nature, and that's what, th- that's what talks and communication is for. And Ryan, I love your style as a communicator because you are gritty, you are raw, you are vulnerable, and you challenge people.

And at the end of the day, it's gonna take two to tango, and I know that people like myself who don't wanna be held down by anything in life are gonna wake up and realize, you know what? But I am. But I am being held back- Yeah ... by some status. And because at night I've got the dooms scroll going on, or I've got, you know, I'm in a mastermind and I'm, you know, subconsciously sizing myself up with others, or I'm looking at, you know, these deliverables and the scale size of my business and I'm realizing in my industry, you know, there's a different measure of success. And at the end of the day, it's all a trap because we're not letting ourselves feel the fear, which is really the authenticity of defining our way.

And I'll tell you, that challenge you brought out is gonna wake people up to realize they have to find their way. Well, thank you. And, and as I said, and I, I couldn't, I couldn't have done it without you. I, um, I, I... This is one of the things that I think has been the most interesting to me a- as I've matured in my career.

Um, when we're young and we look at those ahead of us that we, that we idolize, right? And I think that's a good thing. I think it's okay to look at someone else, you know, it could be an icon like a Michael Jordan, or it could be a mentor in your community, or it could be a parent, or whoever it is that you, you idolize when, when you're young. And, and young can even be into your early 20s. You look at the places where they're successful and you assume that they have, that they have no fear in those moments.

And when you have fear in those moments, you're like, "Oh, there's something wrong with me. I'm, I'm scared," right? And, and, and this is actually a conversation that I've had with my children as well about other things, not, not just, not just sports. It's like, you know, there's, you're, you're, you're 11 and 9. Like, of course you're gonna be scared.

D- you're, you're experiencing things that you've never experienced before all the time 'cause you're brand new to life, right? Like, you are constantly experiencing things for the first time and, and when you experience things for the first time, you are going to have fear associated with those things, especially if you are searching for an outcome in that thing, right? There's going to be fear associated with it. And I think once, when, when you can internalize the fact that Michael Jordan taking the last shot against Utah, sick as a dog, was fearful in the mo- like there's, there's a anxiety in that person, right? Like he's, he wants to win that game.

He doesn't wanna miss that shot. But he mastered the fear. He didn't let the fear stop him, right? And, and this goes for everybody, everything. Like I just did a talk, uh, I did a keynote, um, in Vegas last week, and a wonderful event, Agent-Broker United.

It's an insurance event. Um, wonderful group of people. I had never spoken to this audience before, which is always, uh, something I love because I love, you know, you get a new cross-cut of people that have never heard you, uh, or, you know, whatever. And, uh, the, the organizationally it didn't, it, it wasn't going well. Like not, not the talk, but the, the conference.

Like not, not bad. They weren't necessarily doing anything wrong. But, uh, a couple speakers had gone over their time and, and, um, and, and that's what happened to me. So, um, the, the speaker before me had a 15-minute slot to do kinda like a, a, just a quick hitter, and hits the 15-minute mark and, uh, goes over. Now, the, the, the fear for me was I had to catch a plane at 2:00 p.m., right?

So I had to be done with my talk at noon so I could grab my bag and leave, because I, I live in Upstate New York. It's incredibly difficult to get here by plane, guys, especially when you're coming from the West Coast. So like if I didn't catch that plane, which would get me into my home by 11:30 p.m. on Friday, the next plane that could get me home got me in at noon the next day. Which would have meant I would have missed both my kids' baseball games, and I just didn't want all that extra time not being home, right? So, so now I'm watching my time tick down as this guy goes over, 'cause I know I have this hard stop.

And then, so okay, so he finishes five minutes late. So now I go from having a 45-minute slot to a 45- 40-minute slot. So now I'm trying to get my computer set up and my slides set up, and they didn't have an AV guy, which whatever, that happens at a lot of conferences. And um, and I plug my computer in, nothing. The- can't get the slides to come up on the screen, right?

So now I start panicking because... And normally I'm, like, cu- cool as a cucumber in these moments, but because I, I'm like, but I had this deadline, right? So now I'm over. Now my computer's not working. I'm wa- every minute is less time I get to spend with the audience, and like they flew me into this place to deliver a message.

Like, I wanna give this audience what they came here to see. Like, I don't wanna shortchange them. And like, so I'm sitting there, and then, uh, actually one of the other speakers comes up out of the audience and says, "Hey, you go. I'll get your slides working," which was amazing. Aw.

Shout out to- That's good. That's good ... Bravo. Yeah, yeah. Uh, he's gonna be on the podcast in the future.

Awesome guy. Um, shout out to him. But he comes up. So like, so, so I do take this big deep breath and, and, and I'm telling you guys, like I get nervous energy for a talk these days, but I tend to not get fear. But in this moment, I'm feeling, I'm feeling the, the, the heart go.

I feel the, the, the cortisols flushing through my body. Like I feel it, right? I feel it. And so I take a deep breath- Everyone listening knows those feelings right now. I think you're like making us all- Right ... sweat a little bit.

Yeah. And, uh, and, and, and, and, and if I didn't, if I hadn't, if I hadn't learned the lesson that I tried to share in The Status Trap about this, this idea of, of mastering fear, and fear as a vector, what I, what I said to myself was like, "Fuck it. They're, they're... I, I'm gonna take all this energy," and I'm, and I'll tell you, Selah, I fucking ripped. Like I just, it was like- I bet you did ...

I had this whole talk. I turned around and I just, I looked at the audience and I said, "Are you guys ready?" And they, you know, I got like the murmur that they were, and I said, "Here we go." And it was- Let's roll ... 32 minutes of full throttle, 'cause I was like, "You know what I'm gonna do?

I'm gonna take all this fear and energy I have, and I'm just gonna go." And granted, I was probably a little more aggressive than I normally was. I certainly cursed more than I normally did. I just was like, I, I can't... You know, I can try...

If I tried to settle myself, and I guess this is what I'm trying to share with people, is like if I tried to settle myself in that moment, it wouldn't have worked. The, I couldn't... Like instead of fighting the fear, I said, "I, all I'm gonna do is turn fear into energy," 'cause, 'cause- Yeah ... a- and I say this in the talk, fear and excitement light up the same exact neurons in your body. So y- so what that tells me is you get to choose what it is. It's the, the same neurons.

Yes. If you feel- That's good ... fear and you feel excitement, your brain, if you had one of those like brain hats on, the same picture. Same picture for those two emotions. So you get to choose. You get to choose.

And I was like... And, and I didn't know that two years ago, but today I knew it, and I literally said to myself, "This is, let's just go. Let's use it." And we just went and hit it, and I'm getting bro hugs and bro slaps and standing ovation. And it was awesome.

And it, and it ended up being great. Um, not what I had expected, but great. But I guess my point in saying, like that fear, the fear... Like I could have said, "Oh my God, these people are gonna think that I'm a moron, that I'm late, that I don't know how to work a computer." And I was like, "Nope.

I don't give a shit what anyone thinks about that stuff. I am gonna try to give this audience what I had at that moment." I was now at this point, what, 8, 15, 16 minutes late. Like, I'm just gonna give them everything I have for the 32 minutes- Yeah ... that I have with them. I love it.

And what happens happens. And, um, I think- Okay, so I gotta jump in and ask you a question here. Yes. What did it feel like then- Yes ... for you to take the stage at TEDx? Like I wanna know, what did it feel like for you to get on that stage? 'Cause you had hammered that talk.

You were prepared. It was your thought leadership you were bringing to the stage in that moment. And that's a different stage. At least everyone listening here knows that stage. Yes.

They weren't at your audience in Vegas, but they know that that is, uh, that's a stage to be won. That is an, that is an honor. In fact, it was your, you building your personal brand. Yeah. The blood, the sweat, the- Yes ... editing the content that you have pumped out for years to say, "Hey, I've won an invitation to be on this stage."

And that was... And, and with that comes the prep, with that comes the standards that you've gotta step onto that stage. So I wanna know, I want you to tell everyone two things. First of all, what did it feel like for you to take that stage knowing not only just the prep of the talk, but truly the brand that you had built that put you on it? And just like what did that feel like to you?

I want you just to tell us about that. And then equally, I'm just gonna, uh, just for time's sake, I'm gonna put the other question there. What did it feel like when you were done with the talk? I want you to, I wanted you to unpack both of those for us, 'cause those are moments a lot of people haven't had a chance yet to experience, to be a speaker on a TEDx stage, but we've gotta know what it was like for Ryan Hanley. Yeah.

As scared as I've ever been because, um, it is, it is so much different than my normal style. So how I normally approach a keynote and how I did in Vegas is, um, I have a, you know, I, I'm sure professional speakers or anyone who's a professional speaker may disagree with this style. I have a starting point and an ending point, and I have no idea how I'm gonna get there. So I have slides, but I will literally turn around and be like, "I don't wanna use that slide today," and I'll just click right past it, right? So like I, I have a starting point for my talk, and I have an ending point for my talk, and how I get there, I, I oftentimes have no idea.

Because I'm reading the audience. Are they energized today? Are they hungover? Is it early? Is it late?

Is this a nerdy audience? Is this a, is this an audience, "Rah, rah," like they just wanna get fired up? Like what are they looking for today? Because I think that- I think, I think a lot of speakers approach... They, they have a stump speech, and they're, "I'm gonna deliver my stump spe- this is what I, this is what I say, this is how I say it.

You either like it or you don't." And, and you can be very, very, very good in that style, do not get me wrong. It's just not the style that I use. I, I f- my way is to, I'm constantly reading the audience. I'm constantly looking at their eyes.

What are they doing? Are they interacting? Are they nodding? Are they disagreeing? Are they murmuring?

Are they, you know, are they engaging? Like, and then, like, uh, you know, a good example of that is, like, um, I tend to curse, and- ... I like to make sex jokes and jokes about liberals. I just do. I, I think those things are very, I think sex, I think being a hardcore lefty- I can see why the TED was totally different I think those, sorry.

Yes. I think those things are fucking hilarious. You know what I mean? Like, I just, I mean, this might be crass, but I just find sex to be fucking hilarious. Like- ... what you're actually doing is just so insane that, like, I don't know.

So I find it funny. And I d- you know, if I can drop a little, like, innuendo in there and get everyone to laugh- ... you know, it's whatever. So I'm in Nebraska. And I, I promise I will answer your question. I'm in Nebraska, and, uh, I start doing my thing.

And I tend early in a talk to kinda test the audience a little bit. Like, where are they, right? So I'll, I'll put a few thoughts, a few, you know, push a little here. Okay, how do they respond? How do they respond?

And, and again, I'm, I'm iterating. I have a place that I wanna get them to, but I'm iterating so I can deliver the message in the way that they want. So- This is a great tip right now for anyone who's a communicator. You absolutely need to do this. Yeah.

Ryan, you are such a natural. Yeah. You don't realize how many people don't know how to do this. Okay, keep going. That was gold.

Yeah, so you're, so you're... Yeah, thank you. So, so I, uh... And, and I, I don't like being on stage unless I have to be, so I, I like to get down with the people. So, um, so I'm down, and I'm kinda walking in the middle, and I'm talking and, and, um, I, I make this little sexual innuendo joke.

Like a fart in church. Literally zero response. I have used this 100 times, and it always at least gets, like, a giggle. Nothing. Dead silence.

Oh, no. Nothing. That's the worst feeling in the world. Yes. So I'm like, "Okay, maybe Nebraska, people in Nebraska don't think sex is funny.

That's fine." So, uh, so then bup, bup, bup, and I, I drop, uh, I drop an, an F-bomb. And, um, and again, I, I try to do it in cheeky ways, guys. I am not, like, F-ing, like, just dropping an F-bomb on people to do it. Like, I tend to, like, maybe it's, like, a little...

I, I, I li- I d- I tend to use deadpan humor, um, in, in the way that I, you know, da, da, da, da, da, right? Like, any kind of... And again, nothing. Now all the gray hairs in the back are s- are now standing up and, and, like, a couple of them are, like, shaking their head, like, in disagreement of what, of my, my existence essentially. Ooh, what did you do?

Of what I'm, what I, what I- What did you do after that? Right? Like... So, so I, so I literally stop the talk. I, well, I stop talking.

I turn around, I walk back to the stage, and I sit on the stage, right? And it... So, like, my feet are dangling off the stage, and I'm staring at the audience. And there's probably 15, 20 seconds of silence, and I go, "I'm gonna make you motherfuckers laugh by the end of this talk." And I finally got them to crack, right?

Like, they finally kinda, like, giggled. And I go, "Guys, I will s- I promise I'm not gonna curse again." "But I'm gonna get you to laugh in this talk." Like- No, I go, "That's the last time I'm gonna curse." Way to call that out.

"I get that you guys were-" That is your... Yeah, I was like, "I get that you don't like cursing. You don't like sex jokes." I'm like, "I don't b- I don't have any jokes about corn, but..." And then that, then they started laughing.

You know, and I, so I loosened them up, and then we got into it. Okay. So, but that's my style. Okay, so TED, to your point, to, to your question, TED is so different, right? So different.

Mm-hmm. One, they, you don't curse on TED, right? You don't do sexual innuendo unless your talk is about that. Um, right? It's much different.

And it is, there's no working the audience. Like, you're not in... You're, you are talking to the audience. There's probably about 175 people in the audience. Um, you, they're there, but you are, you're actually communicating to the YouTube video, right?

That's what you're, that's what you're delivering- Yeah ... is, is to the, is to the YouTube video, to that audience. That's a good clarification. Mm-hmm. Yeah, you're not actually speaking to the people that are in that specific audience because that's the nature of the talk. That made me very, very nervous, and, and the mistake that I made, this audience, like, or this, this talk is, is I had planned every word, right?

I, we had written every word, gone through. And what I was getting hung up on were there are actually two transitions that for whatever reason my brain, I think because of the fear, my brain just wouldn't remember, and I ke- kept getting stuck on them and when I was practicing. Two, literally two lines, I just, my brain wouldn't retain them. So I'm sweating bullets. And I'll tell you, it was actually a good friend of mine, Chris Klein, who lives in Ohio, who came to the talk.

I'm, I'm out pacing in the lobby, and he sits down next to me and he goes, "W- w- what's up, man?" He's like, "You look nervous." And I go, "I am." And he goes, "Fuck that. You got this."

And it was like everything melted away. So when I got up there, I felt, I felt fairly... I, I was like, "You know what? I, this is happening whether I'm fearful or not, so I'm just gonna do it." So I went up, and I started.

And here's the thing, guys, the worst case scenario happened. I get, I get about a minute... So if you go watch the video, and I'll have the video linked up in the description for those who haven't seen it. But, um, like, I get about a minute, like, it's around a minute and a half, a minute 45, I can't remember exactly where it is. Somebody fat-fingers the slides in the back and takes my slides off the screen and puts the speaker transition slide up on the screen.

So, like, there's a transition slide between the speakers that the, that the, that TED does. And all of a sudden the transition slide goes up. So now I'm looking at the confidence monitor, and my slide is not there, right? So- Thankfully, having done this before, I just say the same line twice. And you can h- you can kinda tell if you now know, but like I say the same line twice, like I'm emphasizing it.

And, and in my mind I'm going ... Now, it felt like an eternity in my mind. It was probably seven to 10 seconds max. But, but they, they put my slide back in. But in my head I'm going, "Oh my God.

Am I gonna have to do the rest of my talk without my slides," right? And they put it back in. Everything goes fine. Yeah, push all the way through and, um, and, you know, once I got through that moment, I kinda catch my wind, off we go. Very happy with the delivery, especially the last, like, three-quarters.

And, um, and then afterwards I literally, like, was like . Yeah it was like, uh, here's the thing, Selah. Like, I didn't realize how much stress I had been carrying because when, when it was done, it was like I took 200-pound sacks and slumped them off my shoulders, and I was just like . And it was all just fear of that talk that got through. Um, I know, I know you have a, a, a time here coming up.

Yeah. Yeah, I was like, "I'm great now." Yeah, now I'm great, you know? I was like, oh my God. Um, I'm gonna have to have you back on 'cause we didn't talk at all about personal branding.

This has mostly been an in- y- it's almost like you've been interviewing me. But, um, so I wanna have you back on because, guys, I, the reason I wanted to have Selah on, not, not just because we have amazing conversations, but, um, the l- the last year, uh, and, and I wanna be, I wanna be very kind, as kind as I can be to you. Like, Selah helped me reframe how I think about how I position myself in, in, in the world, how I talk about what I do. W- and then, and, and this is what I, this is what I really wanted to talk about today, and we're absolutely gonna have you back on the show 'cause I wanna get through this. I ...

Th- the personal branding, the personal branding work specifically that we did together, like, it wasn't ... Yes, do I have better words? Am I, can I frame what I do better? It, visually is what I do better? Yes, all those things.

Yes. But that exercise helped me as a human being. Like, I am a m- more confident, I believe more structured, more, more defined, more, more clear on who I am and what I wanna become because I did the personal branding work with you. And, like, I guess what I wanted to get to and what I wanted to walk through with you was your process that you took me through because I, like, I would not be, I don't think ... 2025 has already been infinitely more successful to me than 2024 ever was, and it, that wouldn't, that simply would not be the case if you and I didn't work together for as long as we did.

And, um, and, and I just wanna publicly say thank you to you and, and just, like, I cannot thank you enough for what you did for me and the time that we spent together because I honestly believe that, like, I, I couldn't have made it through that time without you. And yeah, were we talking about personal branding? Yes. But you would force me to reframe thoughts, reframe ideas, reframe priorities, and continue to, "Is this ... H- here's what you told me you wanted to become.

Is that in this frame?" Ba, ba, ba. And I kept having to scope and scope, and it was almost like, like, like a, like a, like a sculptor chiseling away. Like, I had this ugly, misformed rock, right? That had some good qualities, but also some ba- and you were like, "That piece needs to go," and, "Hey, maybe, you know, here's how we frame that."

And, and it just, it was absolutely amazing and, uh, I, I, I just, you know ... This, this is one way of saying thank you and, uh, and I just appreciate the hell out of you, and I would encourage anyone who ... And, and, you know, business branding, I know, I know our project was a little bit special but, like, i- if you have this need and, and if you need branding work for your business as well, because I'm sure the process works the same with bran- with businesses as well, Selah's an amazing, amazing, amazing resource that I cannot, cannot, cannot recommend enough to everyone, and I highly recommend, uh, you reach out to her if it's something that, um, that, that, that you need. In a crude laboratory in the basement of his home.