Winning Insurance Content Strategies with Bradley Flowers

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It really helps the show grow. From all of us at Believe, have a Merry Christmas, everyone, and a Happy Holiday! Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of the Ryan Hanley Show. And today we have a tremendous guest, a, I want to call him a rising star, but I think he's way past that in the insurance industry, and that's Bradley Flowers. Bradley is the founder of Portal Insurance down in Alabama, and also one of the co-hosts of the Insurance Guys podcast, a wildly popular podcast in our industry.

And it's always fun to have another podcaster on the show because they do not disappoint in volume of words. So this is a fun episode. We get into a lot of different things, and you're just, you know, get ready for the ride because we go all over the place. But I think ultimately you come out with some incredible value into how exactly Bradley views this industry, why he went independent from being a longtime captive, and how he plans to take Portal Insurance to the next level. Before we get there, though, we have to thank the organizations that make the Ryan Hanley Show possible.

And first up on the board is Ask Kodiak, a technology platform dedicated to risk placement and insurance product selection. Having trouble writing that donut shop with a fryer? Ask Kodiak. Need to place an accountant with five employees in Georgia with a medium-sized payroll? Ask Kodiak.

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And I just want to share real quick how I've been using Ask Kodiak. I go to Ask Kodiak to figure out what markets I want to potentially get appointed with. As a new agency for Rogue Risk, I'm looking and going, Okay, I want to attack this market and I want to attack this line of business. What carriers in the state of New York are writing that type of business? Who has that appetite?

It helps me as an agent find the carriers that will help expand my agency. And just anytime I have a question with who writes what where, AskKodiak.com. Free for agents. Go to AskKodiak.com. Get an account and start using the tool immediately.

I also want to give a big shout out to Tarmica. Tarmica is the premier rating platform for insurance agencies, creating a better experience for the evolving agent. Tarmica was built by leaders within the insurance community and they take pride in being ex-carrier and agency employees, building technology for agencies and carriers. This is true indie technology and it's just a single entry into your platform returns multiple quotes for all your appointed carriers. Tarmica, in many regards, is the future of how commercial and personal lines insurance will be rated.

I think they are transforming the process. They're making it easy, clean, wide breadth of carrier integrations and in all honesty and transparency with you, the audience that I love and adore. Tarmica will be powering the front end of Rogue Risk. So I chose Tarmica after doing several demos and feel like Tarmica is the best platform for helping Rogue Risk, my independent insurance agency, get off the ground and they'll be our frontline rating platform. That's Tarmica.com, T-A-R-M-I-K-A, Tarmica.com.

Get in the game. You'll actually hear Bradley reference Tarmica as well today. Okay, so now that we've paid the bills, let's get to our tremendous episode with Bradley Flowers. Here we go. It's lacking.

Who, you? Yeah. Well, you're trying to run a business, man. Yep. I feel that it's five, uh, that those days are coming for me too.

I'm, I'm like probably out of control creating content right now. Cause I know the day that New York state will actually let me start selling insurance. Uh, it's all over. You know what I mean? Like I'm not, I've actually, I've had a couple of carriers reach out to me, a couple of the carriers who I am working towards getting an appointment with their major concern has been my focus on being an insurance agent over like their words, doing other stuff.

And, um, I've said to all of them, like, I do other stuff because one, New York state won't let me sell insurance today. Although that will change like any day. I'm just waiting for some bureaucrat in some office to press a button and you know, that's good. But like the other side of it is, you know, once, you know, this is just, this is just getting it going. Like once everything's rocking and rolling, like that's the business, you know, the other things are in support of that, not the other way around.

And they don't, they don't understand that. And I get why they say that, but at the same time, it's like, that's, that's a dumb way for them to think. Yeah. You know, I think it's just, dude, I think that the idea that an insurance agent can be anything other than just an insurance agent is just a very foreign concept. And I don't think they're wrong for thinking that because I just think it's very foreign.

There's just, dude, there's not that many people like you and I, who like the other day, someone was like, oh man, there's so many insurance podcasts. I'm like, there's like 10, there's like, there's like 10 insurance podcasts. And someone was like, oh, there's so many. And, um, I just, I mean, like I get the sentiment. I just thought that was funny.

Like in any marketing, there's like a hundred thousand. You're forced to listen to everybody. It's, it's a difficult thing. I struggled with this a lot when I was at the Murray group. Yeah.

If I was being completely honest, uh, and self-aware, I would definitely, there were, I made so many mistakes when I was at the Murray group. You know what I mean? The truth is like, if all I cared about was personal income, leaving the Murray group was the worst decision I've ever made in my entire life. Right. It was the worst.

It was the worst decision I ever made. If, if it were just about personal income, because I I'd be making 300 bills, 400 bills, easy, easy. I mean, 10 years later or six years later, after 15 years in the business, the way that I was trending at that time, like it was, you know what I mean? Like, I mean, I wrote the last month that I was there, I wrote, I got 89 inbound leads and I sold 61 policies from those 89 inbound leads in one month of a hundred dollar budget. Right.

So like, I think I read that. Yeah. And, but in my, in my point in saying that is like, that's because I was creating a lot of content, some of which has worked incredibly well, some of which didn't work at all and was confusing and weird. I think what people miss is, and I think this is why you're on the right track is that you don't know what the pieces are that are going to get that person to connect with you or not. You have no idea.

You, you create, you try to add value, you do the work and some things connect and some things don't. And to try to pretend like, you know, which things are the winners and the losers. That's, that's the worst thing you can do. Right. All you do.

I mean, it's just try to provide value. And then you build up that kind of like social equity that you get that, you get that engagement. And then eventually you, you post something that pops and you get some results from it. Mm-hmm. A hundred percent.

And you just, yeah. I mean, I've just had so many examples of this. So get, getting back to it though. I can tell you firsthand, there is a trap that I'm sure, you know, on your darkest days you've fallen into as well, where that, you know, if you post, you know, you know, there are certain topics that if you post about them in insurance community are going to just go crazy. And like, sometimes that like social validation just feels really good.

Like it is so easy to fall into that trap. But I know what you're dealing with right now, because like, so I quit my job, my last agency, January 8th of last year. So last week was a year. From January the 8th until March the 1st, I don't know that I've ever put out better content, at least to me. Like I was in the zone and March the 1st of 2019, it was like, couldn't be further away, you know, and, and even I think Zach Gould called me during that two month period.

It was like, man, you're going hard right now. And I'm like, I know, because I'm eventually not going to be able to. Yeah. And, and if I can do enough, um, original stuff in this two week, this two month period, I can pull from that. Yeah.

You know, and that's like my wife posted something yesterday and I liked it or something. And it was a piece that she made and she was like, I don't really like that post. I'm like, but the point is, is that you made it. And the more of that, that you do, the better you're going to get at it. And then you can go redo the old stuff.

Yeah. Yeah. Plus no one cares, you know, like if someone goes back and looks at my early stuff I did for the Murray group, it is awful, awful compared to, I mean, today's standard 99.9% of people wouldn't even publish that. I just am so stupid or, or naive or just, I don't know. I have something wrong with me.

I didn't even think twice of it. It was just, let's hit publish and go. Now I don't think that that is right for everybody. It worked for me in part because I did not have an established brand in any regard. Like if you have a well-established brand in the community, you don't want to be going back and doing garbage stuff that I completely understand and appreciate and, and, and, and agree with, but like the Murray group at that time was called the Gildiland agency.

We had a website from 2002, even though it was 2011 and like, there was no presence. Like we just, we were based mostly on referrals and my father-in-law is a pretty tremendous and connected guy in the community. So he like has a lot of friends and that's how we dug up a lot of our business and no one else was doing it. And that's how we were able to be successful in that space today. The bar is higher if you have, especially if you have established brand now, it's also a lot easier to do higher quality stuff today, but like I get that some people hesitate to just hit publish because they're like, look, we've been in business for 20 years.

Like if we start putting out this, it'll be weird. I get that. That part I understand. Yeah. But, well, it's, you know, I mean, and that's why I hired, you know, I've got a, I got a kid that, that works with me one day a week is a videographer.

Um, and then he does, he does graphic design. Um, I, I realized, you know, obviously I realized the content's important. Like that is kind of the game for me and that's, what's going to separate us. And I realized about two months in, I was like, I got to get somebody else to do this, you know? And so I kind of put the word out for an intern and, um, luckily it was right after the Gary V episode.

Yeah. So I got no shortage of responses and, um, and this, this, uh, Grant who works with me now, he's been with me, I guess a little more than half a year. Um, I kind of outsource all the editing and all that, even if it's something that I could edit really easy, I still send it to him and he does it and he's got a different take on it, you know? But, um, I did a post recently. I took my first piece of original content that I ever made and posted, I was actually sitting right here and I had it kind of Photoshopped in and I was pointing at it like this is my first piece of content and it was literally made on Microsoft paint.

It was a, it was a cartoon superhero with a cape with my head on it and it was so bad. And, uh, as if to say, look, you've got to start somewhere. And the beautiful thing about when you start is unless you're in a situation like the murder group, which I would even argue that they wouldn't be in this situation because nobody's really thinking to look is nobody's watching. Yeah. You know, when you start, you know, you're going to get 20 views on your first video.

Like who cares? And a lot of them are going to be your mom watching it more than once. Yeah. You know, you're right about that. You're right about that.

And also when you put out that MS paint graphic, you're probably like, oh shit, I'm the man. Like, look at this. I was like, I'm going to put it on a billboard. I'm killing the game right now with this graphic. Yeah.

And even then it was still kind of like, like, uh, that like wabi-sabi of like, it's perfect because it's not perfect kind of thing. So even when I knew like, oh, this is not quality, but the fact that I'm an insurance agent doing this is going to be good enough because everybody else is doing hearsay social, you know? Yeah. Well, the other thing too, is people really respect just the effort. Like I found that a lot.

Like when I was producing for the Murray group, I, I'm not an insignificant number of people said I decided to reach out just because I saw that you were doing stuff. Like it was just the fact that I was willing to put in the effort that said to them, like triggered in them, well, geez, if he's willing to try, you know, I'll see, I'll see, you know, and, and Hey, maybe it didn't work. Maybe they didn't like it, whatever. It's all good. But like, they were willing to give me a try just because I was putting in the effort of trying to help educate them and put stuff in the community.

I mean, that's a, that's a big part of it. Well, and that's kind of like too, you know, we did a, we did an interview that dropped this or last week with Tyler Asher from Safeco. He's a man. When we, he's a great, great dude. Um, when, uh, we did, we did that interview back in July and for several reasons it got delayed, but, uh, right after we, we recorded that they had released their millennial study that they did, which I helped them on.

And, uh, the, uh, one of the things they found is that millennials don't necessarily want to buy insurance online. They just want their agent to have an online presence. So that kind of, it doesn't have to be a good. Online presence. It just some kind of presence.

Cause they're going to check you out online and they're, you know, it's like if I were to have five people come in here for an interview and only one of them is licensed, I'm going to naturally gravitate towards the person that's licensed. Right. Yeah. It's kind of the same way, you know, as a young person, I'm going to gravitate towards the person that's trying to do things and trying to make things happen, you know? Yeah.

Plus it. Yeah. Dude, the whole, like, the whole millennial thing is at this point has become a, like a bullshit filter for me. If I see you, if I see you discussing millennials in any regard, other than the fact that they were 23 when we were talking about them or 18, when we were originally talking about them, because now I'm turning 39 next month and I'm, or I guess two months, but, but I'm on the bleeding, the leading edge of the millennials in 1981. Like, it's just silly.

It's just, they were young, they were young and they had more technology. That's all it is. There's nothing, nothing's changed. They're humans. Now, yes, some of their buying decisions are different, but like this, they want the same things out of a relationship.

They want to know that someone is behind the transaction to make sure that their family is taken care of. They just didn't have a family before, so they didn't care. You know who my car insurance person was when I was 24? Geico. You know who my car insurance isn't with anymore?

Geico. It makes complete sense. It's part of an evolution. It's a, it's a rite of passage. And, you know, I think that, I think there's just, you know, that whole millennial, I'm just glad that that's over.

I'm glad that we don't talk about them really that much anymore. We have such a clear understanding and studies like the one Safeco did or Liberty, I can't remember. Did it come out through Safeco or Liberty? Both, I believe. Well, it came out through the agent for the future, which is kind of a future thing.

That's right. Yeah. You know, it's like this, like I saw, and obviously there's people that are too extreme with the, with the smartphones. Now I get it. There's people that don't know when to put it down.

I get it. But like, there was a, I saw a video this week of some, some guy that was like, you know, these kids need to put their phones down and spend time. Like you needed to put down the newspaper, Alfred. Like, even though I know it's a different scale, but like literally like I've seen parents back when I was a kid, like my parents really weren't newspaper readers, but I would go to like my friend's house and their dad would read every single word of the newspaper for the first three and a half hours of the day and not say anything to us. And God forbid we're playing in the, in the floor and bump the back of that newspaper.

He was blowing up, you know, like it's the same thing. It's just a different medium. Like, yes, I know there are problems. I know there's issues. I know it's, it is, um, exacerbating a lot of social issues that we have, but for the most part, it's the same thing over and over.

Um, so there's a really cool Twitter handle called, I think it's called the pessimist, something around pessimist, but I think it's the pessimist is the handle. And basically it's a, this Twitter handle just like posts out, um, I don't know. It like basically takes counterintuitive top, uh, like, uh, stances on different topics. So the other day, um, someone I follow retweeted this, the pessimist and that it was basically an article from 1964 in the Washington post talking about how the television has completely corrupted the American child and how our civilization was about to fall apart because they were watching television when they got home from school and it was like burning holes in their brains. That's amazing.

And here we are 50 years later and we're like, oh, everything is so much different. It's so much different today. It's not different. Like they have, they have, they have, um, like if you read, like I've been reading a lot of like ancient philosophy stuff, which then turns you on to like all different topics from that, from that time period. And there's writings from some of the ancient philosophers about how the children of that generation were like completely corrupt and, you know, didn't understand what was going on.

And, and we're talking about like 300 AD, you know what I mean? So it's just, this is always the way it's going to be. This is a natural evolution of every generation has this same, the same processes as different things at different times in your life become more important. Don't, don't forget that the Beatles were going to corrupt all the young girls in America. And then Elvis shook his hips and we were all going to become polygamists and, and sex addicts, you know?

So, so I, you know, moving, moving on from that. Sorry, this came, started from a conversation and we just kind of spiraled. Yeah, that's okay. So let's, let's get into like an actual interview because I have so many questions that I want to ask you and, um, and talk about. And, uh, and, and, and the first one is really like, you know, I know you've, you've talked a lot about this on your own podcast and, um, we'll give the audience, you know, all the calls to action.

I'll have everything linked up. Everyone can go check you out. Uh, most of them prior to the 10 out there. Yeah. One of the 10, um, just look, probably find my podcast in the ranking and then just go up.

You'll, you'll find, you'll find their podcast. So, um, so why did you leave the agency? Like, what was the impetus? Like, I'm sure there were a bunch of reasons, but like, what was that moment when you walked out of work, picked up the phone, called your wife and were like, meh, I'm done. Like, this is it.

So, uh, I was in a situation where I was basically in the role of the agency principal. Um, basically the company I worked for was very, very similar to how foreign bureau is. Alabama doesn't have foreign bureau. Um, I had answered to somebody at corporate and I could kind of run the show like I needed to, to a degree. Um, I, uh, could not hire and scale.

Um, I had, I had a dedicated CSR, um, and that was it. And, and even if I wanted to hire someone out of my own pocket, I could not. And so what happened is, you know, I started on, on social media in 2014, October, 2014 practice, practice, practice, got better, got better, got better. And in 2017, we ran a, a marketing campaign that generated roughly 6,000 leads. Um, from there it was game on and, and I was like, okay, I finally kind of figured out how to get people to give me their information in an insurance sense.

Right. And so, um, we were generating so many leads that we physically could not handle not only them, the clients we had and, um, the, uh, uh, it, it was hurting our experience and I'm all about the customer experience. And so I had a choice. I either had to, um, I either had to stop marketing, which I'm not going to do like stop doing what I love, I had to accept horrible customer service and mediocrity. I mean, I had people coming to me, friends that would come to me and they would be like, man, like to a degree, they would say like, man, you're really not all you're cracked up to be like this billing issue didn't get taken care of.

And you're talking about how great you are. Right. Um, or I had to continue to work 18 hours a day for something I did not own and work myself to death. And so, um, about March of, I'm sort of slowly coming to this realization and about March, um, of, I guess, 18, uh, I went to go visit Paradiso. Which is always so much trouble.

Scott and Scott went together. Uh, and you know, here where I'm at, uh, you know, I've got four farmers offices and four state farm offices on the same street as my office. Um, captives run rampant. Um, you have two types of independent agencies here. You have the old established family agencies, which is, is great.

Like I'm friends with all those guys. Um, but they're not really in growth mode. Um, you know, they don't know what, you know, they don't know what Tarmica is and different, you know what I mean? And, and then you have the bucket shops. And so to go up to Connecticut and see like a Paradiso that's a really just well-oiled, innovative, just solid independent agency is, it was kind of eyeopening for me.

And then Scott and I were there for two days. Uh, we got, uh, we got in the car on the Uber ride back to the hotel and he looked at me and said, you know, you have to open an independent agency, right? And I'm like, yeah, no, I do. And so that was kind of the moment I decided that I was going to do it. Um, told my wife like a month later, like, Hey, look, this is what I want to do.

And everything I'm doing from now on is going to be to get that done. Um, we, in December of last year, we went to rented a cabin in the woods to do business planning. And, um, I kind of put together like what I would need monetarily. Um, cause one of the mistakes I made at that prior company is I, for the first four years, I invested all my money into marketing that I wasn't really saving. I was saving as, as a normal human should, but I was not saving to open a business.

And, um, we kind of sat down at lunch and she was like, how much do you think she would need or you would need? And I, and I was like, well, uh, I would need this much. And she was like, well, um, we're going to have that much money extra at this date. What if we transferred that and you rocked and rolled? So two weeks later I quit my job and that's kind of how it happened.

That's pretty cool, man. So, um, yeah. So, so for those that may not, Chris Paradiso is the owner of Paradiso Insurance. Paradiso presents and one of the most well-connected and selfless, uh, you know, agency operators in, in our ecosystem. And if you're not connected with him, uh, I would highly recommend that.

Uh, this is how Chris is. You're on the phone with him and you're like, Hey, what about such and such company? Do you know anything about them? He's like, yeah, hang on one second. I'll get the CEO on the phone.

And the next thing you know, you're like talking to the CEO, like an insurance carrier. Yeah. That's how all the conversations with him are. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. He's a good guy. I made a similar trip out there to, uh, to his office in Stanford Springs, Connecticut. Um, very recently, thankfully it's only an hour and a half drive for me, but, um, much, much farther for you, Southern boys. So where, uh, so where does portal come from?

Like the name portal, like tell me, give me the backstory on that. So I had no idea what I wanted to name it at all. And a, a name's not important because it's one side of the argument is a name is not important because it's going to become what you are. Right. Like, you know, I had a buddy that named an insurance agency about a year before I started like F and G insurance.

Right. And I was like, that's the dumbest name ever. But then I learned about GNN insurance and I'm like that name fit. It's kind of cool. Like it becomes what it is.

Right. It's, and so, um, but at the same time, you know, I'm big on branding and that sort of thing and, and so the one, the one kind of thing I had is I wanted, I kind of wanted it to look and give the perception that it might be an insurance carrier. I wanted to give that professional, you know, because like a lot of the independent agencies here, at least are either like the flowers agency, pale, male and stale or flowers and associates. Nobody has any idea what the heck they do, um, or you've got like Bama coast insurance. You're too far the other way.

So I kind of wanted to be right down that middle of like good, solid, and then, but also trendy, you know, and, uh, I actually had to register my EIN twice because the first time I registered under another name that I called, uh, Johnny Gwynn, who is our producer at the podcast. He's an advertising genius. He's worked on many national campaigns. Um, he did the campaign for Nokia when Nokia first like became known back in like the nineties. Um, he was going to do my logo and he was like, come to the office.

We will name your company today. I'm like, yeah, right. Cause I'd like really fretted over it. Yeah. And, um, we did this exercise.

I've got a photo of it. It was, it was a big whiteboard and you write down like all your nicknames, all the dogs you've ever had, all the addresses you've ever lived, like all this just stuff and you mix and match words. And the point is not to find a mix match word to get the name. If that happens, it's great. But the point is, is to get those creative juices flowing.

And Johnny was kind of like, Johnny was like, man, like, you know, what is insurance? It's, it's, it's safe. It's mother's arms. It's, and he's like, shelter insurance. I'm like, can't use that as a company.

And so I'm like, crap. And so we're kind of, he's like, and then finally he, he, he sat back and he's like, a port is a safe place. Well, mobile is the port city. Right. And I didn't want to go mobile bay insurance because if I ever decided to go national, that would be a hindrance.

So port AL, but also portal. It kind of gives that like self-service, like kind of new wave kind of feel. So basically Johnny named it in short. Um, and I absolutely love it. And I was actually talking to my wife this week.

I was like, we, I got this hat in and she was like, you love your name, don't you? I was like, I love the name. I was like, I couldn't be anything different. Like it's perfect. So yeah, sorry for the two long stories.

No, that's okay. I know. I, I like it. And, uh, you know, it's it from the outside, not I, now I see it like port AL, but like from the outside portal, I just thought it, you know, in my mind, I'm like, it's a, it's a, it's a new way. It's you're, you're moving into a new way to, to do insurance, a new way to think about insurance.

Like it portals like transitional. It's, it's, you know, you're on one side of the portal, you're on the other. Um, there's a really good podcast called the portal too, by, uh, Eric Weinstein. And the, uh, the little O with the line through it. Yeah.

Um, so that is called, so Johnny, Johnny draws this on the board and he's like, that's called a plimsoll. And he's like, a plimsoll is on the side of every ship. And what it tells the captain is, is if the water's below that line, we're good. If the water's above that line, we're sinking. And he's like, I've always wanted to use that in a logo.

I'm like, well, that would actually be good because if I could brand that, it could kind of be, you know what I mean? Yeah. Um, and, and that also kind of speaks to like the most coverage without breaking the bank kind of thing. Like it kind of, so that's kind of where like everything came from and we, and we got it done like one day. He's like, here it is.

So, um, did you have Google domains open the whole time too? In terms of. Like picking the name? Did you? Oh yes.

Yes. I was on the computer while he was doing that. And, um, unfortunately portal insurance is like five grand online right now. And I just hadn't bought it yet. Uh, please nobody buy it to piss me off.

That would really suck. Um, so I've got someone to buy it and gift it to Bradley just as super nice. That would be amazing. Like one of these rich carriers is watching this. That'd be awesome.

Yeah. Um, the, uh, free insurance guide podcast sponsorship. If you do that, by the way, um, the, uh, uh, get portal insurance is what we, we kind of, kind of settled on and I, and I plan on buying it very, very soon. It's just, I don't know if that makes sense right now, but yes, had domains open and there was several things that we, that we kind of settled on. And then I looked at the domain and it's like, it's just sitting in a work.

It's just funny to me how, like, I, that's like when I'm picking a name, I'm a hundred percent just, I have domains.google.com open. Cause that's just, I just want that, whatever I use. And, uh, it's like, Oh, awesome name. Ah, shit. Oh, this is a great name.

But, ah, well, what about get, what about do, what about real? Ah, okay. Next one. And you just like over and over and over again. I would hate to like go in when I was naming my agency and just see like what some of the names.

And then like, you have all those names that you're like really embarrassed of. Like you're like, why did I ever even consider that name? Yeah. Yeah. Like originally I had thought about bloom insurance, flowers bloom.

I kind of liked it. Um, and then Johnny was like, dude, that is like the least manly name ever. And I was like, so is my last name. Great. Thanks.

But, uh, but there was a lot that I was just like, man, I'm so glad I didn't name it that. And at this point I don't think it would matter. But, uh, yeah, I'm glad that you didn't do bloom. I'm like, I had, these are, these are in the cart. So I didn't actually buy it.

So I actually, if I had started the agency a year ago, when I, before I took the metabolic job, I was, I have a registered LLC actually for this name. It was going to be indigo coverage. I remember you saying that, which is so bad. And, and actually I'm mad at a lot of you guys. Cause none of you bastards told me how bad that name is.

It reminds me of the indigo girls. Oh, it's so bad. But I was like, I, I like, I did one of those stupid thought experiments and I'm like, blue is creativity and, uh, purple is compassion or, or, or empathy. And then when they mash up, it's in the, and like now I'm like, oh my God, the, that was basically the universe going, this is not the right name for an insurance agency. Like this, you shouldn't be doing this.

So we're going to say, we're going to, we're going to make you go leave the industry. Here's the penance you need to pay for that stupid name that you bought and registered with the state. I'll tell you what I like though, about rogue risk is it's kind of got this like bad-ass undertone to it. Yeah. I, I like the alliteration.

That was a big part of it. Um, I Googled rogue and there's not really any other insurance businesses in the country with rogue in their name. And I am an, for me, one syllable, one syllable words are big for me. Like I won't like everyone who I interact with, I eventually wear them down. Until I have a one syllable version of their name or a, or a nickname that's one syllable.

Like I just, like, I like, it's like, it's like rogue. Like it's just quick whack. You know what I mean? Like the, what the word actually means actually kind of dissolves into that's, you know what it is. So, and then I threw the risk on there because that's the only way I could get the domain name.

Yeah. Have risk. And the other thing too, like with portal is like, I've thought about like, we could, if we ever branch out into other sectors, you know, businesses that are parallel, you know, whether it be mortgages or whatever, like that could be several different things, you know, um, several divisions or whatever. But what's funny is like, we were in business like two weeks and like you and I talked or like you talked about on, uh, Cass's show we were on a couple of weeks ago. Um, one of the big hurdles of independence, and we've certainly felt this is, you know, your customers never heard of your carrier.

And, uh, which is another reason why we wanted it to sound like that, like, cause I want them to know us, you know, as long as they know us, that's good. But, um, uh, we were writing somebody and my producer was like trying to like, you know, uh, build trust or whatever. And she like sells the customer and he's going to call back with his payment and he calls back like two hours later. And he's like, I looked up on reviews on you guys. You guys don't have good reviews.

And that's when we found out that there was another portal insurance, uh, that they do health insurance and it's like, they're like a, I don't know what you call it, but like, I think like an MGA for health insurance. But anyway, I was like, we've been up in two weeks with pay-per-views. Who are all these people hating on us? Yeah. I'm like, I would love for one of my competitors to do that.

That's great. But like, they're all your podcast competitors in the insurance industry, reading you poor reviews of it. Yeah, that's right. You know, I'm going to do, I'm going to do a, uh, at one of these conferences, I'm going to do a keynote. Uh, I'm already working on it.

Why everyone should start a podcast. Yeah. I don't, you know, I think it's great. Like it's, it's only good for the industry. Yeah.

I mean, I go back and forth on that idea. So I, I, um, um, I, I go back and forth the, there's a big part of me that is like, yes, create, absolutely. Everyone should be creating completely agree. Um, I definitely, I would disagree with you in that everyone should have a podcast only in that. I don't think everyone should have, and I don't think there's any medium that everyone should be doing.

Um, I completely agree with you in that everyone should be creating somehow, um, whether that's like, um, and I tend to go in waves. Like for me, like I was writing on Instagram, little Instagram vignettes for like four months, just every day, pounding them out, went from like 1100 followers to 2000 followers, tons of engagement is awesome. And then it just kind of got burned out with it. And Instagram changed their algorithm. And Instagram's algorithm sucks so bad right now.

Oh, it's just, it's not even worth, it's barely worth even being there. But, um, and so then I started doing the same thing, these kinds of long form posts in LinkedIn, and that's been tremendous. I mean, that's been really tremendous. Then I'll kind of get sick of writing and I'll go to video and I'll do videos. I think the key is everybody should be creating something, even if it's just tweets, even if it's just the simplest thing, if it's text messages to friends, like it's in, in the reason for that, at least from my perspective is, is if you don't, someone else owns your story, right?

If you don't, someone else owns the story, not, and that someone could be a thousand someone's that can mean every single one of your customers has a different version of your story. In their head, unless you are creating and owning that story and telling them what they should think about your business. Here's how you should think about us. Here's what we stand for. Here's who we do business on and on and on.

But what happens is from, at least from my perspective, you're like, ah, I'm not good at, I don't know how to do a podcast, Brad. Like, what am I supposed to do, man? Like, yeah, I get it. But like, I don't know how, okay. You know how to type.

You have a computer, like hit up LinkedIn, hit up Facebook, be on Twitter. Or do something. It also gets you thinking about things differently and it helps you solve other problems. Like, if you're writing or creating on a consistent basis, it's not so much about that post as it is, then a client calls you and you're like, oh, you know what? I was just thinking about that the other day on this little post I wrote and now you have an immediate response for them.

And I found that a lot is that, that it's like, it's just the practice of thinking almost. Yeah. Well, and I think everybody, uh, everybody should try everything. Yeah. Because I never, like, like in 2015, if you'd have told me that I would put myself on video and talk to a camera and then post that, I'd have been like, you're freaking nuts.

There's no way I'm doing that. Um, in 2016, if you'd have told me I'd been on a podcast, like, you know, because what happens is, is when you try these things, you kind of figure out what you're decent at and then you can kind of lean into those. Like I used to do blog posts. I hate doing blog posts now. I think mine suck.

Like I'm currently looking for someone to write for me, you know, like, and so I think by trying a little bit of everything, you can kind of figure out what the best thing for you to do is and what you're talented at or what the market responds to, you know, like, Hey, you may think your videos are bad, but if the market responds to it, that's really all that matters. You know, it's like I did a video, um, about a month and a half ago, a bunch of, bunch of agents were in a group, uh, crapping on LinkedIn or not LinkedIn on a lemonade and your typical stuff like a wait till the claim, you know, like, okay, number one, just wait till one of these carriers like this comes along and they get the claim part, right. Then what are you going to do? You know, but the, but the, the whole premise of this video was like, you know, Hey, it doesn't matter what you think about lemonade or what you think about portal or what you think about rogue risk. All that matters is what the market thinks about it, what the customer like, that's it.

Like it, you know, if that resident, you know, we like to make fun of Geico's ads, but obviously they work, you know, anyway, I, you know, the lemonade thing is so interesting to me because, um, I have beef with lemonade, but not for their business model. Cause I think their business model is not bad. Look, they write standard accord form HO force. Like they're not writing anything that's that much different than you're going to get from travelers or Hartford or any of these other carriers, right? I mean, nuanced, just like every carrier, but, but basically a standard HO4, no one has been able to really come out and say, Oh, look at this deficiency.

It just does. It's not there. So, okay. So it's decent. It's decent paper.

Okay. So you have to live with that. They're not, they're not trying to gimmick and scheme. It's not a bare bones policy. It's a standard form.

There's nothing special about it, but there's nothing bad about it or particularly bad. Well, they have, in my opinion, three, there's three aspects of their business that I disagree with how they've handled. One is their complete lack of disregard for humans desire to interact or consumers desire to interact with humans during the sales process, which tells me that they did not research the industry properly because that's not, you know, they may not have, I would love to have heard they didn't believe it rather than what seems to be the case, which is they just didn't do their homework. They just came in and said, this is like any other industry. We can automate it.

Okay. That, that bothers me from a business model perspective. And if I were an investor, I would be scared because it shows me that they were negligent in properly understanding the industry dynamics before they got in. Agreeing with and understanding are different things. I don't think that they understood that dynamic.

I don't think that they just disagreed with it. I think they don't, I just think they didn't realize that that was a big part of, of the insurance buying process. One, two, their pricing is silly. It's just silly. All they're doing from a pricing perspective to garner market share is buying losses.

That's all they're doing. Carriers have been doing this for a hundred years. This is not new business practice. Like they haven't, they're not doing something that people haven't done before. They're saying we want to gain market share in New York city.

So we're going to charge $5 for a policy that should be $25. Right. And we're making a tactical decision that we can ride out the, the losses and the, in exchange for buying market share. That's what they're doing. Okay.

Don't tell me that you have some proprietary pricing model that is, that sets you apart from the industry. Just, you know, maybe be a little coy about the fact that all you're doing is something that every other insurance carrier has done when they've tried to move into a market. Okay. And then the third part is they hammered on independent agents when they came in and their, their advertising is very negative. So what that tells me is you're going to attract people who operate from a place of scarcity and negativity because you are marketing through scarcity and negativity, which yes, in the short term garner action.

It's absolutely a persuasive technique, like more power to you. I don't think that you had to hire Dan Ariely to tell you that scaring the shit out of people and telling them that the old way is wrong is a great marketing tactic over the short term. It's a great marketing tactic. I just think what they're seeing from, from, from a retention perspective and a combined ratio perspective is that, you know, you don't garner great business when you market that way. Right.

It's not attracting people who are making their decisions based on loyalty and, and, and things like that. So, you know, I think when you break down lemonade, it's really tough. Like I would love to have, to have access. I think lemonade has done a tremendous number of things, right. And the fact that we're having this conversation still is a testament to what they've done.

And from that regard, I'm happy that they're here. I just think it's important to understand, you know, why they're actually, you know, what their struggles actually are and that they are real. All those three things that I just mentioned are very solvable problems. Very, very solvable problems. Yeah.

For me, it was the attacking the agents. I felt that was, that was as silly as the pricing, especially now that you, that you're slowly starting to hear about them, you know, giving some contracts out and stuff. I'm like, yeah, you know, I mean, I had a conversation with a, with a, a carrier recently, and it's a carrier that has both captive and independent. And the person that's represented from the company said, look, you know, we, we know that the independent model is the way to go because if we, if someone goes to one of our exclusive agents and that person doesn't fit our model client, they're going to manipulate and try to do whatever they can to squeeze them in to that. Right.

Which is either not good for the customer because they're paying way too much for a product that's not adequate, or it's not good for us because something's been manipulated to make it work. Um, the direct model is not good because customers lie or don't understand what's going on, which kind of speaks to the lemonade thing. And she's like, independent agent, if they don't fit in our, in our, what we want, they're just going to take it somewhere else. Yeah. You know, I, um, it's, it's such a, it's such a complex issue.

Um, if I, I say, if I were running a carrier, right, like, like it's that easy, you know, if there were a magic wand that I can wave, you know, I think from a high level. So any, any, anyone who's working for a carrier, take this for, take this, take this thought for what it is. 30,000 foot, you know, there's a million nuances, but you know, I think a, a flow that could be very advantageous to the industry. Um, if I were working for a mid market mutual and I had the ability to wave wands and make things happen, I would absolutely go direct. Absolutely.

I would go be, I would go out in front of my agents. Then I would push all that business into my independent agencies. And, and there's a couple of reasons for that. Um, one, there's no better retention mechanism than a well-run independent insurance agency. You don't get a better service.

You don't get better advice. There's no better relationships. It is the best mechanism for retention. I would say as a broad sweeping swath, it is not always the best, best mechanism for new business growth. I think there are many independent agents that are tremendous at new business, absolutely tremendous.

But I would say in a broad sense, on average, the median agent, not tremendous at sales, but tremendous at new business at, at retention. Okay. So, so I get that brand out in front of the agencies, I'd push people to my independence. I'd also take them direct. If I wrote them direct, I would absolutely then be pushing them to my independent agents.

You know, again, there's some profitability things and stuff there too. And we're talking, but the idea is if you moved everything to the agents, but understood what they were going through, I think the carriers can be better partners in helping the agents. Because I think what's happening is carriers are like agents, you need to become better sales mechanisms. And the agents are like, we want to too, but we're just not really sure how to do that. And then you're not giving us the tools.

And they're like, well, we don't know what tools to give you. And then they give them a tool and the agents like, that's really great. Except I didn't need that tool. I needed this tool over here. And they're like, well, why didn't you tell us?

And they're like, cause I didn't know. And it's because we're not all playing the same game. And, um, I would love to see more of that. I think that carriers who do do that, uh, stand out. Um, you hear about them, you know, you hear about the acuities and, um, you know, and some of these others that are really, uh, that are really making moves and providing that, that those power plays I think is where it's at.

Or give me the ability to go direct to consumer. You know, I'll look at, look, look at it like in a tune. We recently got appointed with a tune about two, two, three months ago, and they custom built some landing pages for me that people could, could quote and bind their own commercial insurance. Now people ever going to get to that point and do you necessarily want that? No, but I think that's a step in the right direction.

Right. And what I liked about the landing pages is they were custom built for different niches. So there was a landing page for barbershops. It was a landing page for restaurants and so on. It was a really well-built page.

And they let me put my pixel in it. How many freaking carriers would be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We're not doing that. You know? So I think, I think there's a lot of the tunes and companies out there.

And I think there's going to be more and more of those as we go on. You know, I think where we kind of struggle with it is more on the, the auto side. A lot of the auto carriers don't want to do that because they would rather just do it themselves. Yeah. But I think you're right about that.

I, uh, how, how do you, how do you like a tune so far? Um, I wish they had a few more classes, but I love them. Yeah. I love them. Uh, I love the, I love the, the rating program.

Um, where, you know, I'm coastal, uh, they're an admitted, it's an admitted bop, uh, thousand feet from the water inland. They can write, which is unheard of everything else is, you know, is ENS. Um, I wish they had like some GL and, and, and stuff like that, you know, but I think it's great. I know that's what you're talking to, right? Yeah.

I had a call with them the other day. I really liked, I really liked what they had going on. I thought it was a really interesting model. Um, yeah, I'm working on a deal with, uh, with Facebook. Um, it's, it's, it's me, Facebook, and I got to pick one carrier to partner in a tune was that partner.

And we're basically, uh, we're running some, uh, some test ads essentially, and everyone's sharing the data and, uh, it's, it's, it's, it's a lot of fun. You Zucks and Hobson. Hey, you know, I had to, uh, I had to sign a Facebook NDA. I'm thinking about framing it and putting it on my wall. It was kind of cool, but I was like, Hey, I just want to like clarify.

If I make a market, a video, like talking about Facebook, y'all aren't going to like, they're like, no, it's good. Um, yeah. They're like, we will shut down your internet forever. Like, I don't really want to get on your bad side, but it, but it's come in handy too. Cause I'm like, I have an ad that I'm like, I got a buddy that had an ad that was, that he had a difficult time getting it launched.

I was like, Hey, go in on the backend and look at this guy's account. Let me tell me what he's doing wrong. And they like, like, Oh, he's got to accept this thing or whatever. But, uh, but that's, that's a cool project. It's been in the works actually since agent 2021 was when that kind of got put together.

Yeah. Um, and, uh, we're super excited about it. So we have, we have just a few minutes left and I want to be respectful of your time. And I would be remiss because I've never actually had this conversation with you and I've just been waiting for the right time because I just know where it could go. But what was it like to spend time with Gary Vee?

What, what was your experience like? Um, you know, so I got to spend, you know, I'd met him once before at, uh, at a speaking thing he did and, um, that was like 2016 and then agent 2021 happened. Yep. Um, so we got to spend some time with him there. They had like a speaker breakfast.

Um, so that was kind of cool. And then, uh, the senior bowl summit, which I helped found last year here in mobile college football, all-star game. Um, we had a business conference and Gary came in for that. Um, simply just for the connections. Uh, I got to have dinner with him about a week after agent 2021.

Um, it was strange and I mean that in a good way. Uh, seeing him not in a business setting was interesting because he, you know, and I've been around some of these guys like the Grant Cardones of the world and they walk in a room and it's like, I'm here, MF, you know, like, and stuff like that, you know, um, he just walked in. What's up? What's up, man? What's up?

Hey, yeah. Hey, yeah. What's up? Like, just very like, like, and you're like, wait a minute, you're like normal. You're not like, and so we're in a crowd of people and he's like the quietest dude there, like quietest guy there.

Like not saying anything, just listening. And, you know, you've heard, I'm sure you've heard him say that, but like literally like it was, it was almost weird. It was just, it was like a little bit off-putting. It's like, wait a minute. Like I'm expecting like, you know, bravado and all that.

Right. Um, and then, you know, he and I had a conversation right when he got there, he gets pulled away, talks to everybody. And then like an hour later circles back to me and brings up what we talked about wanting to know, like genuinely wanting to know more. So like, that's kind of cool. And then, uh, of course the conference was the next day and then, um, going to do the podcast, which was four months later.

And literally he's, he's meeting with his, he's meeting with Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty was in the room immediately before us, had no idea who Jay Shetty was at the time. Uh, he goes from meeting with Jay Shetty to a meeting with his COO to a podcast with us. And another meeting, I think with like the pure wow guy. Cause like the office is like right there.

Yeah. And to see him kind of in that like super business mode and how different that was from like a social dinner was really interesting because I think we put people like that on a pedestal sometimes and think they are that way all the time. Like the way we see on Facebook when it's actually the exact opposite. And another thing that I thought was neat was, you know, he gives the impression that they're filming him 24 seven. They're not filming him 24 seven.

It's like three hours a day. It's scheduled. Like you get so much content out of that little amount of time, you know? Um, so that was kind of cool to see from like a creative art standpoint. Yeah.

So, yeah, I, I, so at, at agent 2021, whatever, I got to meet him twice. One very briefly, once very briefly. And then once, uh, I snuck my way into the VIP lounge. Um, I just heard, I literally just harassed the woman who was at the door telling her that I was a speaker and I think I was supposed to be there. And I say harassed, like in a, like a reasonable way.

Like I was just like, I'm a speaker. Like, I'm pretty sure I'm supposed to be here. And finally she's just like, whatever, just go in. Oh my God. Hold on.

Hold on one sec. Of course my dog's going to go bananas. Like at the last two minutes before. Hey, inappropriate. Inappropriate.

Yeah. There's two minutes left in the podcast and you're barking. How come? Say hello, Isabella. You've gotta, you've gotta, uh, leave this in.

Hey, Isabella. It's inappropriate for you to be barking during podcast time. Got to be used to dad doing podcasts by now. Yeah. She, yeah.

At this point, she knows. Sit. There's no immediate danger. Um, sit down. So I, so I worked my way into this, uh, into this room.

Um, and then I saw, uh, Michelle, uh, linka was in there from, from Florida. Yeah. So I see her in there. So then we're chatting and she's like, and I had met him earlier in the, so he basically has a line of people and he's just like talking to him. And, uh, and I, and I didn't want to get in line because I wasn't, I wasn't sure like, am I supposed to be here and not supposed to be like, I don't want to be that jerk who like doesn't have the right ticket or whatever.

Like, you know, I, I wanted to spend some time and get to know him because I've consumed so much of his content. But at the same time, I don't know, you like also don't want to be that guy, you know, I don't know, like whatever. Yeah. Ego, whatever, whatever it is. But she's like, look, I don't want to wait in this line by myself.

Wait with me. So I said, that's fine. And, um, so then we ended up waiting and it was cool. I got to hang out with her a little bit and she's, she's really interesting and very good person. I really like her.

So that was fun. And then we get up there and man, I just was like, here's this line. Got to be 150 people at least right at this VIP dinner. And this is at the end of agent 2021 after he's done the keynote, the meetings all day, you see him all over the place. You know what I mean?

Like, I mean, this is a long ass day and you know, from work and conferences, like by that time, I don't care if you're introvert, extrovert or on amphetamines, you are toasted. By that point. It doesn't matter how much money they're paying you. At that point, you're always like, is this shit worth it? Yeah.

Like you just, cause you just, you've just run out of energy and brain power. Right. And like, um, and, and here he is one after the next, after the next, after the next and like walk up, Michelle gives him a big hug. Snap. I've snapped a photo of them.

That's cool. She talks to him for a minute. And then I'm like, Hey man, like we had a chance to, you know, we bro hugged before we got the bro shot before or whatever. I was like, but I just wanted to come up in, um, you know, whatever. So I just wanted to say something to him.

And he's dude, we, he spent seven minutes. We're just talking about, about, about business stuff about, Hey, this, and to talk, asking about the insurance industry. And I asked him, how come I don't see any of his content focused on the insurance industry. I don't see him with any insurance clients. And he had a really interesting perspective on that, which I did not disagree with, which was basically insurance carriers.

Insurance carriers thus far have been unwilling to approach social in a way that is meaningful. So he's like, I'm not going to waste my team's time, you know, trying to convince these guys to do what they should be doing. He's like, when they start to come around, I'll start to engage in that space was, I'm paraphrasing. That's basically what his stance was. And, um, and then we started talking about the bills and, uh, and he was just like, I was a super good guy.

And, you know, I walked away and I, and I called my wife and, um, she knew that I was like, I was like texting her. I was like, I'm going to, um, and, uh, I just said, you know, I, I thought I said to my wife, I said, take out who he was as a, as a, someone who presents themselves in the public space. Right. You're, you do the same, um, as a speaker, as someone who tries to add value through information, education, entertainment, like whether you agree with what he says or not, the way that he operates is exactly the way that you should operate. The eye contact, the way he engages with you.

He is present in the moment. He is listening and responding. And I was just like, you could disagree with every one of his takes on everything. The way he operates himself as a public persona is absolutely positively the right way to do it from my perspective. And I, I took so much as a speaker away from meeting him than I did like actually, you know, anything that he said.

Yep. I see stuff too, because, and I'm sure I know you get this too, where I get three insurance agents, five insurance agents a day reaching out to me, um, which I don't feel worthy of, but it happens and, and a lot of times have to give like, like I see them giving advice to people and you almost have to like, and someone at like, so we had an insurance agent, I'll give you an example. We had an insurance agent in Pakistan reach out to us wanting advice. And I like went into like this, like ball of anxiety. I'm like, I want to help this guy, but I have no idea like how to give advice to someone selling insurance in Pakistan.

But I kind of like dumbed it down and like, okay, how would I give this advice to someone in Alabama? And then I did that. And I see that when people ask him questions, it's like, you're not sure what the answer is for that person. So let's give a, a 30,000, you see what I mean? Like I'll learn a lot from that.

And especially like the interacting with people because like, you know, I did a conference. So I had, uh, I've been, uh, uh, NAFA, Alabama, uh, I've been speaking on their circuit and they mistakenly booked two keynotes in one day, two hours apart. And I was like, but they had already paid me for them. I was like, I'm going to do it. So I did it.

And by that second one, I was so exhausted and like wanted, did not want to talk to anyone. I think I drove home without the radio on. I was just so, but like, you see somebody like that and you're like, well, if he can do that, like I can, I can certainly do that. You know what I mean? Yeah.

It was a big reason. Um, you know, and I, and I, we can wrap this up here cause I want to be respectful of your time, but, uh, it's a big reason why I took on the anti-inflammatory diet and started leading and exercising the way that I did about two and a half years ago was that, uh, Elevate 2017. Um, we got to the last, I was supposed to do a fireside chat was going to be the closing keynote with a guy by the name of Michael Pream and Michael Pream is, um, he's not, uh, he does work in the insurance space, but he's not like, um, uh, thought leader or anything. He kind of does his business credibly smart programmatic ads guy. And I was like, he is such an interesting perspective on our industry.

I would love to kind of finish with this high level, you know, programmatic is something that most agents would never even think about, but it's so interesting. The pixels and the technology and the tracking. Okay. Dude, I got five minutes in that keynote and I looked at him and I kind of did this thing where I leaned forward and I looked at him and I was like, I can't finish. Like, I can't do this with you.

Like, I'm not here. Like you're, I can't be at your level. And he, God bless him, picked up on it, stood up, walked out front. And I just kind of sat back and let him finish. And, and he turned around, he's like, you're okay.

And I was like, I was just done. I had nothing left. And that's when I said like, and I think that's a big reason why Gary got in shape because you mentally, physically, like if you can't, you have to be in the right space to give to the, to give to the audience what they deserve. You have to be in that right space. It's almost like you have to think of yourself like an athlete because otherwise you're going to give a boring presentation, right?

And you can do that, but that's not what you want to do. It's certainly not what I want to do. And you really have to think that deeply about it. And yeah, so I got a, Hey, I, uh, go ahead. Let me, yeah, yeah, yeah.

One question for you. Yeah. And you may have talked about this as far as, you know, I don't think I've, I've seen you talk about this. What is, what is your why and what motivates you? What's like, what's your purpose?

So my, that's an interesting question. I've never really spent a whole lot of time thinking about that. Um, what's my why I love helping people. I've always loved helping people. I've just always loved it.

Like my personal success has never been important to me. Like I hate goals. I just do like, I hate goals because I'm like, I'm just going to try as hard as I effing can. Like, how about that? Like I'll get as much as I can get because I'm just going to try as hard as I can.

Like, I don't know what my goal should be. I was, I dude, I was emailing with Cass and Wes Anderson the other day. Cause I was like, these freaking carriers are going to want a goal for me. What should be my goal? I'm going to do as much as possible.

As much as I can produce with the resources I have reinvesting into my business. That's as much as I'm going to produce. I can tell you a million, I can tell you 500,000. I can tell you 10 bazillion, right? I have no clue as much as I can do, but so my personal goals have never mattered.

I've just, they've never, I've never been like, I want to be, uh, you know, uh, uh, a top 10 speaker. I want to be a, this, I want to be on this list. I can give two flying shits about that stuff. It's always been about how can I help Bradley flowers be the best version of him? Like, what do I need to say to him?

What can I, who can I connect him with? Can I share a tool with him? Can I help him do this thing over here? Can I put him on blast on this thing that I have over here so that he can get up on his and like, so basically it's like, I, I try to find good people and help them that the hard part about that is I think a lot of the, I don't want to call them issues, but like a lot of the setbacks that I've had in my career is because I haven't had a clear goal. You're right.

Like I haven't had a, I want to be this thing. Like Cass is like, I want to build churches in Cuba. It's like, that's what I want my life to be. Everything I do is so that sometime in the near future, I can build churches in Cuba. That's my, that's my goal.

That's my why my family. Yes. But build churches in Cuba. So he then can make all these decisions to get him to that thing. And, um, I think I'm starting to get that.

Uh, I think my kids getting to a certain age have started to produce that thing for me, like what I want out of my life. Um, but I just never had like the, I just never had, it was never about my own. I just never got as much gratification out of my own, any success that I had personally as I did other people watching someone else rise up, um, you know, and, and helping them do that. That's, I don't know. You said something that reminded me of, of, of another Gary story that I think is going to be really cool for you and your audience.

So, um, you said churches. So out of all the, you know, I've, I've been around him four times this year, uh, out of our last year, out of all the things that happened after that, a lot of good happened after this was probably the coolest thing. And you mentioned, regardless of if you agree with the message or not, like watching how he operates. Right. Um, and I apologize for like breaking this up, but I'm, I was, I meant, I wanted to say this before, but I couldn't remember exactly what it needed to be.

Uh, the, uh, I go to a very Southern Baptist church, right? Technically it's a non-denominate or it's a non-denominational, but technically it's Southern Baptist. Um, and, uh, about a week after we did that podcast, um, I was sitting in the cafe drinking coffee on a Sunday and the preacher walks up to me and he's like, and this is a church of, there's a thousand people on Sunday. And, uh, he's like, can I ask you a question? So, sure.

He's like, how do you know, Gary V? It was almost like trying to keep it a secret, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And I'm like, well, I really don't know him. Like I've just like made a lot of good, like chess moves that have put me like that, you know? And, uh, and he's like, man, like I would love the opportunity to tell him, man, a lot of the stuff he preaches about are the same, is the same stuff we preach about. It's just laced with F bombs. And he's like, if you can put that to the side, like it's the same message.

It's like, be a good person, do right by others. I mean, it's, it's true. You know, you know, take care of your family, be a hard worker. You know, anyway, I just, I felt that like, I was, I just said, I was like, that's the coolest thing that's happened since that whole deal. But, but when you said that about cast in the churches, it reminded me like, oh yeah.

So. Yeah. I think dude, it's, it's, uh, this stuff is so interesting, man. And then you, you throw in a little, little drip of serendipity, some luck, muse touches you on the shoulder. And, um, and that's how things happen.

You know what I mean? Like, you know, this is the last thing I'll say. One of the, I don't normally get into this kind of stuff, but like one of the things I thought was really cool about the, the, the decade change was all the, all the stories of in two, in like in 2010 where someone, or in 2009 where someone was, and then where they were in 2019, like, I think that's really powerful to keep that in your head. And obviously you could do that every year. Like I'm here today and here's where I was 10 years ago, but like something, you know, I don't know what it was, but like people putting the pictures out and the stories out and where their journeys have come and like how far.

Like 10 years is a long time and it's tomorrow at the same, you know? And I think, um, I think that, that follow, you know, following the right peoples, you know, take using the right people as, as guideposts, guide rails, connecting with the right people. You know, I think of the group of people that kind of you and I, and some of our other friends, you know, kind of back constantly back channeling and, and talking and, and bouncing things off of each other and sharing and dude, I, there's no way I could get this agency off the ground if it wasn't for that. I mean, I'm going to give a huge shout out to Jack Wingate from all choice insurance before this call, before this call, we, he just gave me an hour of his time. Like we were just talking for an hour, just, we didn't, it wasn't recorded.

It wasn't for anyone's benefit. It was just, he and I just talking about really rogue and all choice. And like, what do I want to be? How does it line up with what he's doing? What advice can he give me?

And like that kind of selflessness, I don't know that, I don't know. I think I feel like in some regard, that is a very special aspect of the independent insurance industry that is unique. I don't think many professionals give of each other as much as I felt agents have been willing to give or are willing to give to not just me, but to so many of their brothers and sisters in arms. And I think that's something that our industry should be very, very proud of. And you don't, you don't even get that on the captive side.

You get you that, that having been on that side for several different companies, that's a, that's an independent insurance agent. That that's what that is. Yeah. And I think for me too, I don't really have an end goal, so to speak. That's like a thing that I enjoy playing the game of business and kind of my, I guess, end goal would be to, to be successful enough that I can play the game of business for the love of the game.

In other words, if a business, you know, the hardest part of starting Portal, honestly, the hardest part has been all the things I've had to say no to. And I want to get to a point to where if somebody says, Hey, I had this great business idea, but I don't have the money. I can stroke a hundred thousand dollar check just for the love of, of, of helping get that business off the ground. Like that's kind of my thing. Now there's a lot of great byproducts of that.

You know, I'm going to take care of my family in the process. I'm going to take care of myself in the process. I'm going to help a ton of employees. Like there's a lot of byproducts of that, that I think for a lot of folks is why, but like, that's kind of, that's mine. So, yeah.

Hey man, this has been tremendous. We've been all over the place. It's my favorite kind of podcast is just rapping, talking shop. Um, tell everyone who's listening, uh, where they can connect with you and, uh, where, you know, what, what they should check out just so they can get to know you more and the podcast and all that kind of stuff. Yeah.

So, um, podcast is the insurance guys podcast. It's anywhere there's a podcast or you can go to the insurance guys, podcast.com. Um, me personally, I'm at Bradley flowers underscore on Instagram and pretty much Bradley flowers everywhere else. So send me a DM. Yeah.

Get portal insurance.com. That site's not quite where I want it yet, but it's enough that I'm comfortable if you take a look. So, yeah, cool. Well, everyone just give them, give them a quick page load so that you can see his Google analytics go up and get that little shot of, of, uh, dopamine when he sees his Google analytics, uh, jump up. Hey, don't do that.

If you don't want to see me on your Facebook feed for a hundred days. Spoken like a true marketer. All right, brother, we're out of here. Thanks everyone for listening. I love you for listening.

We're out of here. Peace. Peace. Peace. Stop chasing leads and start closing deals in one call.

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