Embracing Neurodiversity: Kimi Donahue's Journey to Success and Effective Communication

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Today we have a tremendous episode for you, a conversation with Kimmy Donahue, a senior agency success manager at Openly, but Kimmy is so much more. And if you follow on LinkedIn, then you know that. What I love is in her LinkedIn bio, it starts with insure tech, sure, but then revenue rocker, making businesses sing. I think it's absolutely phenomenal. And Kimmy is one of a kind.

We hadn't had a chance to talk long form yet like we did in this podcast, and it was wonderful. She had reached out to me actually after the episode that I had done a while ago about the insurance hub and neurodivergent insurance professionals and what it means for our industry. And we talked a lot about that. We talked a lot about just insurance in general, business in general, life, a lot of amazing topics, incredible conversation, very open, very candid. And these are the kind of conversations that I do, like the reason I do the show.

Like we can talk tactics and strategy all day, but quite honestly, that stuff bores the hell out of me. Insurance and selling insurance is actually really easy. And if you make it hard, that's really a you problem. It is the emotional, relational, leadership, management, dealing with crises, communication. It is the soft skills stuff that either makes us a success or failure, not our ability to execute tactical activities.

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Thank you so much. All right, guys. With that, let's get on to Kimmy Donahue. I'm going to Shaboom. What's up?

Hey, how are you? Good. I am trying to – let's see here. Testing, testing. Can you hear my microphone?

Yeah, you are. Your microphone is emasculating me right now. Oh, no! It's actually one of my singing microphones. I'm like, ooh.

Sounds awesome. Cool. Yay. Well, I'm excited to have you on the show. Likewise.

Yeah, this is – well, you're not on my show. I'm on your show. But I'm super excited to talk about this stuff. That's the stuff I could talk about all day. Yeah, and so I want to – I'd love to start with just in general for people, just a little bit of your origin story.

You don't have to go too far back or just spend too much time on it because I don't want to – like, I want to talk about other stuff. But, you know, I'd love to just – just a little bit of origin story for people who may not know or may not have heard you or seen you doing your thing or follow you on LinkedIn or all the other places that you're creating. Just to give the audience a little back story. Yeah. So, I am Kimmy Donahue, currently agency success manager over at Openly.

Prior to that, if we want to go all the way back, how I got into the insurance industry, it's like everybody just kind of fell into it, right? You know? I was super interested in what it can do for people and, you know, started as a producer at a captive company, opened my own captive agency, went independent, and actually exited from a partnership and joined Openly. So, that's my insurance origin story. A couple other things about me is I'm just one of those that loves to take action.

So, I'm involved in many projects. I've got a lot of different hobbies. Music's one of them, hence this cool microphone that I'm really struggling to get, like, to stay in the picture because of that virtual background stuff, you know? Yeah. Anyway.

The good news is I don't produce the video, so it doesn't matter. Oh, cool. Even better. So, no one will actually see what's happening on here. Then I won't care.

I'll face it more towards me, so it sounds better. There you go. Well, so what happened was, and I know this wouldn't be a problem from you because you're just comfortable being in front of people, but what I find is when I produce the video, people get really weird. Oh, no! Yes.

Yeah. Like, we could have these open, honest, you know, conversations that are dynamic and all over the board, which is why I do the show and what I love about it. And if I tell them I'm recording the video, I'm going to put it on YouTube, I will get these square conversations where people, and I don't know what it is. I'm like, you know that people can hear the words on Apple Podcasts, right? And they're like, but if you can see their face, they're like, they completely changed.

That's interesting. Yes. For that reason, I would love to do a video show, but I feel like it really has to be in person. Like, you know, I think that when you produce the video, I think the audio is different. For some people, I think people, it doesn't feel like you're talking to thousands of people when it's just audio.

But when you know the video is being produced, people all of a sudden, they have to look right, they have to sit right, and they're like, and I'm like, you know, so it just changes everything. So I just stopped producing a video a long time ago. Interesting. No, that'd be a really cool case study to run with and see, you know, what kind of different conversations you have, you know, with all of that. Yeah.

That is very interesting. Huh. I didn't mean to interrupt you. No, but no, that's okay. That's going to happen this whole show, probably, which I'm totally okay with and get.

But yes, this is probably why I'm okay with being on video is I'm on stage. I sing when I'm not doing insurance related things. And prior to that, I was always in different kinds of competitive sports, whether it was motorcycle racing. I was involved in competitive shooting as well. So things like three gun.

And even, you know, you go all the way back to my childhood. I was captain of my high school bowling team, you know, and not really something you always go out and say, Hey, guess what I did, but I love bowling. Um, so it's just always very competitive and going way back. Cause I know the reason that we wanted to chat was, uh, you had a post about neurodiversity and ADHD. So this is really where it gets interesting.

So back in fourth grade, I was diagnosed with Tourette syndrome and not a lot of people know about that. Uh, one, cause I don't talk about it that much. I'll, I'll post about it here and again. And, uh, it's, it's, you know, people close to me. Know exactly what that is.

But one of the reasons I never really talked about it prior was I said, you know what? I don't want to be labeled as the girl with Tourette's, you know? And, and it's interesting because you hear celebrities and, you know, famous people with Tourette's as well. Say, say the same thing. Cause in today's day and age, it's so easy to get a label based on, uh, on anything that makes you stand out anymore.

Right. Um, what does, um, if you don't mind me interrupting here and I probably will do this like a thousand times. Go ahead. I'm just interested. Um, like Tourette's.

So I don't, you know, you see like people with Tourette's in movies, right. And it's overdraft, just maybe break down if you could quickly for people like what, what does that actually mean? Um, yeah, yeah. So the, the, uh, official definition to be diagnosed at Tourette's is you have to have at least two motor ticks, which are physical actions. So, you know, a twitch of some sort, or maybe you have to jump up and down and one vocal tick and vocal tick doesn't necessarily mean you have to be speaking words.

Uh, I know one of the, the common things that you'll see and, you know, comedies and, you know, the, the movies and stuff is people cursing. Um, and that, that, that's just a piece that could happen with it. I'm lucky I didn't get that piece and I'll, I'll cover that in a minute. Um, but I do have several ticks, you know, like sounds that I make with my mouth and they were a lot worse when I was younger. So that was also what's interesting is, uh, wouldn't say I've grown out of it, but it's definitely gotten better.

And I, I truly think it's just cause I learned how to handle my emotions and stuff better. You'll, I've noticed that when I'm extremely stressed or the opposite excited, uh, my, my face twitches get crazy and I, I focus more on that, I guess. Yeah. Um, but yeah, so yeah, Tourette's it's, it's more prevalent in males, which is also very interesting. Um, and they're not really sure I say they, as in, you know, doctors, they're not really sure where it comes from.

It could be genetic. Maybe, uh, it could just be something that is developed. So there, there's still a lot of research going on on what it is and how it becomes a thing. And it's also one of those things where just cause you have a tick of some sort, you know, or a habit is what I used to like to call them. Doesn't mean you have Tourette's.

Um, so what started for me was when I was younger, I had really bad, uh, like squinting twitch and a couple other things, but that was really the prevalent one when I was younger and my parents didn't know what it was. They thought it was just a habit that I was doing. So we created a reward system where if I could quit squinting for 30 minutes, I'd get ice cream or something, you know, and, uh, people that know me know I love ice cream. I love food. So that was a really hard thing to, uh, not win and, um, when they found that I could stop it for a little while, but it would come back worse.

They're like, okay, something's, you know, something's going on and took a couple of years, but finally we took, you know, went to a psychiatrist and, you know, they, they diagnosed me with everything under the sun, which, uh, I've, I've started writing about cause I thought looking back on it as a kid, you don't, you don't know that doctors should be asking a lot of questions, you know, and back then, uh, so I thought, oh my gosh, I've got all these things wrong with me looking back on it. I think, uh, my parents probably could have gotten a second opinion. I think I still would have gotten diagnosed with Tourette's absolutely. But, uh, they diagnose you with all the other things that they think come with Tourette's like ADHD, OCD, depression, you know, all these other things. And I'm like, I'm, I'm in fourth grade, man.

Like, but, uh, the one thing that really did help with getting diagnosed was now I had a name for it and it was easier to cope and explain to people because, uh, you know, let's say I was, uh, twitching or I had, when I was younger, I had one where I, I would do this. It's almost like I was trying to get my hair out of my face. And it was like a, it was like, I was shaking my head. No. And teachers and, um, like summer camp counselors thought I was telling them no, and they would get really frustrated with that.

So once I was able to have a, a name to that diagnosis, I could explain it. And even then, and even to this day, it's still such a misunderstood, uh, you know, thing that it does take a little bit of extra steps to tell them, no, it's okay. I'm okay. It's, it can be annoying, you know, but, uh, yeah, it's just part of me. I really, I couldn't agree with you more.

And again, uh, like I said, like the whole point of that podcast, the couple of podcasts I did and, and, um, and talking through with, uh, the insurance hub, which is, I think an incredible organization that I'm really excited as, uh, as Mike continues to get that off the ground, um, around neurodiversity in the insurance industry. Um, uh, you know, I think, you know, uh, so I, I, I got diagnosed with ADHD. It's not debilitating. I'm severely high functioning. And frankly, all it does is allow me the, the, the main impact though has been my ability to understand how to communicate with people better.

Cause before I just thought I was excitable or I was considered like a troublemaker, not in that I did bad things, but that I was constantly like annoying the shit out of adults when I was a kid or they called me the megaphone or, you know, whatever, like a whole bunch of these things, as I've gotten into my work career, uh, you know, I've been called, uh, uh, uh, disagreeable, uh, overbearing. Um, and in my mind, I'm going, I just have like 10,000 ideas and I want to share them with all of you all the time. Like, cause I want to share them with you. And like, that's what my mind is saying is like, share, share, share, like, you know, let's go like, and I didn't realize, um, you know, that's overwhelming to some people. Like some people's brain, you know, don't, don't work that way.

So, so I've, it's been very interesting, um, to your, to your point, getting to your point where like having the label, I don't think that it, you know, I don't like to talk about it necessarily, I have been lately because I think it's important, but, um, as soon as you have the label, you're like, Oh, now, now I can figure out how to work with that. Before I was just like, am I really nuts? You know, like, like, like, you know, my, my ex-wife used to say to me all the time, like, why are you this way? Like, you're too much, you're too much, you're too much all the time. She used to say that to me.

And like, that started thinking, I was like, man, am I just really like a fucking annoying person? Like, maybe I'm just annoying and come to find out it's actually true to someone like her. I was too much. I was annoying and all this. And now when I meet a normie, which is what I call non-neurodivergent people, uh, uh, now maybe like dial it in a little bit and go, you know what?

If I give this person full throttle, they're probably going to hate me. So I'm going to give them like half throttle and see how that goes. And, um, but it's all, once you have that name, you can work with it, I guess is very long way of saying. And for, for those of you, since we aren't doing a video, I'll let everyone know that my eyes are tearing up because I totally resonate with all of that, that I grew up with that exact same feeling with, with friends and, you know, uh, even to this day, you know, uh, with my peers, um, how I've combated that is setting the expectation up front is, Hey, sometimes I can be a little much. Cause like you, Ryan, I get super excited about my ideas and I want to share them all, you know, and, and to people that like to take information and process it or be communicated with in a much different way, you know, that can be really, uh, overwhelming for them.

So I love the fact that you are open to, well, how do I communicate with others? Because there's, believe it or not, I'm sure you and I, I have yet to meet some, but there's people that are even more than how your brain works. And you'd probably be like, Whoa, you know, how to, that we work with that. So I think what's really interesting too, is the word neurodivergent is actually, it was really new to me, um, you know, the last maybe 12 months or so. Uh, and I was just like, wow, that's, I never knew I fell into that category.

Cause I didn't even know it was a thing. Yeah. Yeah. It's same. A hundred percent.

It's cool that people are talking about it. And I think the, just like any kind of DEI converse, uh, conversation of, uh, is just how do you communicate with others in the way they want to be communicated with? You know, The hard part is people like you and me are better than all the normies. So we actually have to dial it. I'm kidding.

I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. All you normies out there who've made our lives miserable for the last however many, no, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.

Um, no, but one of the things, um, and I don't know if you heard the show that I did, um, with Michael from the insurance hub, but. Yeah. I listened to it and I love his energy too. I'm like, Whoa, this is cool. Yeah.

Yeah. And it's what, what, um, what I think is really interesting is that, and we talked a lot off the air too, and have had other conversations off the air. Cause I want to be involved with his organization more. Cause I think it's very important. Um, but one of the things that we've talked about is how, um, unlike maybe other things that could be different about you.

All right. Cause I don't want to say a handicap makes you in a different category of just things that could be different about you from the standard kind of normal version of a human, right. Um, neuro neurodivergent people. And I, and I think, I think he would agree on this perspective to a certain extent. It is, I think the, the, the onus is on us to work on ourselves, to communicate in certain situations with people who may not know how to handle us, because I think it is too much of an ask to have the greater population change to adapt to us.

So I think that, um, my, you know, right now I have like seven, seven things going on in my head at one time. I'm trying to stay very focused on you. Right? Like I could easily fly off on a tangent if I allowed myself to do so, or if I were tired or when I get excited, obviously that happens similar to you. Um, but, but it is impossible for someone, and this, this is what I learned mostly from, from my ex-wife because she is a normie.

Um, it is impossible for her to follow along. So to, so there, there are two things happening at one time. Well, those of us whose brain works in a different way, we need to work on ourselves to be able to communicate in a productive manner as much as we can to the people who maybe cannot keep up or cannot follow the way that our brain moves. And then we need to train leaders to understand, I think to better understand what is going on with someone's brain like ours, uh, and, and, and those like us so that they don't see us as troublemakers or as people who are too much or overbearing or what have you, they're able to dissect what's going on and, and use it, um, for what it is, which I like to think of it as a superpower. Like, you know, yeah, I love that perspective and I think it's a very mature answer to, to some of the challenges that we're facing.

I think, uh, there's, uh, definitely training involved, uh, on both, both ends. And I love that, uh, the movement that you guys are trying to start of, you know, it's, we need to learn how to communicate with others because it is a big ask to say, well, no, no, I want you to communicate with me the way I want to be communicated with. Like, that's not fair to anybody, regardless of what side you're on. Um, one of the really cool things that I've been, uh, involved in is, uh, feedback training and also, you know, personality assessments. I've always been a big fan of those, not to box you into, Hey, this is who you are, but it allows, it opens up conversations just like this to say, Hey, well, how, how do you like to be communicated with?

What are the things that tick you off? You know, the, it really helps create understanding on both ends so that you guys can come to an agreement and set expectations up front. I think that's probably the, one of the biggest things that, uh, anyone that's neurodivergent can do is set the expectations and it doesn't have to be in a way of, Hey, I've got this. And I, you know, I think it's real easy to fall into that trap. And I think this is probably a really polarizing, uh, statement, but like, I've found that sometimes people use that as a crutch and I'm, I, uh, it, yeah, it makes my blood boil any kind of victim mentality, but, uh, I love it when people call it a superpower.

Cause when used, right, it definitely can be, Oh, Kimmy, I, I, uh, so, so, you know, this has been, um, and I, I don't mean to keep referencing like my divorce, my ex-wife, but it was a moment in time where obviously a big life event that it was a big life event for me, but, but in, um, in such a positive way, uh, uh, we were not meant to be together. We, we produced two incredible children, but outside of that, she and I are very different people and, and not her way is right or wrong. My way is right. And her way is, no, I'm kidding. I'm kidding.

If she listened to that, um, but, uh, uh, kind of kidding, mostly not. No, um, so, but what it did was it forced me for a whole bunch of reasons, which may be obvious, maybe not. If anyone's ever been through something like this to like, be like, maybe I was the fucking problem. You know what I mean? Like, I didn't think I was, but maybe I was right.

It's because something didn't work. And in doing so I went to counseling and all this kind of stuff. And, um, and it actually, it was a woman that I dated for a little while. We're not together anymore, but she was, she was actually, uh, uh, she had an even, I don't want to say worst case, uh, uh, a more, I don't know how you would describe it. A higher level of ADHD.

Sure. Yeah. Um, we, we were, we went on a date and within 30 minutes, she looks at me and she goes, so you have ADHD. Right. And I was like, like, I literally, no one had ever said that to me before people had like send ADD or whatever, like, but as, as like a poke, but not, not like in a way she wasn't asking to be a jerk.

She was being honest, it was an honest question. And so I, I kind of like, I said, you know, so we started talking and she's like, uh, I wasn't really, that was, she goes, that was kind of rhetorical. Like you a hundred percent do. And I kind of took that in and the conversation went on and again, she wasn't being a jerk. We were just talking.

So then I saw my counselor like that, that next week. And I, and I brought up this conversation that I had with her and she goes, oh yeah, I thought you like knew that. Oh. And I was like, holy shit. What does this even mean?

So then I had to go figure out, cause I don't even know what it means. I didn't even, I mean, I knew what the letter stand for, but I didn't know what it actually meant to my life or my brain work. And, uh, the very first thing that my counselor said is you cannot expect people to change the way they communicate with you. You have to change the way you communicate with them. A hundred percent.

Yeah. And, uh, to your point on a victim of mentality and, and, and I also, I don't care what happens to me in my life. The last thing in the world that I want to be as a fucking victim. So like, I will, you know, so I was like, okay, great. And I can tell you, Kimmy, this has been one, and I don't know, we don't, we don't know each other that well, but like, this has been one of the most profound changes in my relationships relationships with every single person, coworkers, um, uh, my ex-wife, uh, uh, uh, women that I may have dated.

And that's not, it's been that many women, but you know, a couple of people that I've had relationships with since, um, uh, my parents, uh, just everybody. Cause now, now I, I can go into a conversation and be like, okay, Ryan, you have 30 minutes. Here's the topic that you're talking about. I, I keep notes. I, I now start making agendas to stay on track, right.

In, in places where it's appropriate. And, um, I just, I, I, man, I feel like there's so it all of a sudden, like it, it opens your whole world when you know that you have this thing and you can work on it. And I, um, I want more people to, um, feel comfortable having these conversations and working through these things, I guess, which is why I love that we're having this conversation. Yeah. And that hits the point.

I mean, just in general, regardless of whether someone's neurodivergent or not having that, being able to have those kinds of conversations and give feedback and the timing on this couldn't be more perfect literally yesterday. And I posted this on LinkedIn too. I had a coworker reach out to me and say, Hey, Kimmy, this is super unconventional, but can I reach out to you and give you some feedback? And I'm like, yes, I got, first of all, I got so excited because he's the first one that ever reached out to give me feedback. So I'm like, Ooh, what is it?

What can I get better? And it was around communication. I'm like, Oh boy. And I kind of knew what was coming, but you know, he said, Kimmy, I, I, you have great ideas. Um, you know, and you, you communicate well, you know, in certain channels, but, uh, you know, maybe you can add some more context to your emails.

So I wasn't being detailed enough is what basically what he was asking. But first of all, props to him. Cause he presented it in an amazing way. Um, and two, it just reminded me, I'm like, well, thank goodness. I was taught to be learning based and be open to that kind of feedback because that could have gone way differently.

You know, if it was two different people having this conversation. So it just, it felt really good one, one to have that happen. And I'm like, you know, imagine what the world would be like if we could teach people how to be open like that. And like you said, too, it's it, we can't go around asking, well, I'm this way. You need to communicate me with this way, you know, because everybody, everybody wants, has a certain way they want to be communicated with.

Right. And then it's up to us to, uh, like, okay, so here's, here's the thing. I, I grew up in a family of engineers, so you can imagine how different our personalities are. And, uh, I had to learn, you know, social skills. I had to learn, uh, communication styles that was definitely was not stuff that came naturally and I'm, I'm still learning it.

I'm, I'm not perfect by any means. Um, and I think that's, that's how it is for most people, you know, the confidence, um, communication, all of that is a learned skill over time. What's up guys. Sorry to take you away from the episode, but as you know, we do not run ads on this show in an exchange for that. I need your help.

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I love you for listening to this show and I hope you enjoy it. Listening as much as I do creating the show for you. All right. I'm out of here. Peace.

Let's get back to the episode. Um, you said that you were taught to be learning based. What is, what does that mean? How, what did that look like? Like, uh, I love that concept.

What, what, you know, maybe just expand on that a little bit. Uh, my, it's my environment. It, it dates all the way back to my parents. They are both extremely intelligent and very open-minded. Um, they did a really good job raising me and my little sister without labels, without, uh, telling us that we had to do, you know, one thing one way or another.

They allowed us to be ourselves, um, and, and still be very nurturing around that. So for example, um, like when I was diagnosed with Tourette's, you know, they, they didn't make a big deal out of it. They're like, okay, it's just part of you, you know? And so that was the way I grew up. It's like, oh, it's just part of me, you know, whatever.

And, um, uh, my mom allowed me to be creative. Like no one can see it on the podcast, but if you look me up on LinkedIn, I have purple hair, you know, like I, I had crazy hair and my mom let me do that since I was little, you know, as long as I kept my room clean, of course. But, um, so she allowed me to be creative and be myself. And then also I've just been really lucky or have done a good job of surrounding myself with people that are similar, that are just very growth minded. Um, that's what I mean by learning basis is people that understand that like, there's always room for improvement and your perspective isn't always, you know, the only one that exists.

And I think that's, that was probably the biggest piece that my parents really helped drive home for me and my sister, you know, I mean, and in, in all the sensitive subjects, like religion, you know, um, political views and things like that. Like I knew where my parents stood, but they never once told me I had to be that way, you know, which was super respectable. And, and, and eventually I did adopt most of what they, you know, what they run with, but it was cool. It allowed me to explore, um, you know, other religions, other, you know, whatever, just, just to see what else is out there and kind of create and, you know, develop my own ideas about life. And I think that, that if I didn't have that, I absolutely would not be who I am today.

And, uh, I hope, I hope I can leave that with people, you know, that I come in and interact with. I love that. I, uh, uh, so there's a couple of things in there. Um, I had a different, but similar upbringing, um, actually my father was, uh, he's a tremendous dad and, uh, and, uh, and a tremendous grandfather to my children, but he was, um, for me, although now he's a pushover, um, for me, he was incredibly overbearing, incredibly overbearing. It was my way or the highway.

Um, and unfortunately, uh, he, uh, went to jail for about three years, um, for drinking. And, um, when he was taken away, all of a sudden I got my mom, a hundred percent. My mom is more except everyone, you know, she has her views and whatever of life. And she shared those with me and we had lots of conversations, but where I have, where I had questions, where I had different thoughts, where I had different experiences. She was, we talked about all that stuff and it was very, very open.

You know, she was much more probably if you read a parenting book, she was probably doing a lot of things wrong, but we were much more like friends than, I mean, obviously she was my mom and I treated her with respect, but like, we, we had a very, uh, friendly relationship outside of a more kind of standardized, maybe 1950s parent child relationship. Sure. But it sounds like you were able to have open conversations that you might not have had otherwise. Yes. And I think for so many people, they don't get that right.

They, they, they grow up thinking the world is a way and they get older and they do the thing that I probably dislike most in the world, uh, is they put their shit on other people. And I actually just did a post about this that I'm going to expand upon maybe in my, in a blog. Um, I did a, just a social media post about it where I basically just said like, you know, if there's a secret to, to having good relationships, it's don't put your shit on other people. Your shit gets to be your shit. It's America.

We're blessed that we were, we're, we're born in this country, but I feel like we've, we've missed and we've missed, uh, we've started to shy away from the, what freedom actually means in this country, which is, it used to mean I get to live my life and Kimmy gets to live her life and we can interact with each other. And, and, and I love that Kimmy gets to live the way she gets to live and Ryan gets to live the way he lives together. And it's great. And we can interact and do all these things. Individuality.

Yeah. We have a few social constructs, which allow us to interact in a healthy way, but otherwise you can do all your crazy shit and I can do all my crazy shit and everything's good. And I feel like we've gotten to a point, unfortunately, where now freedom is. I get to live how I want and Kimmy, you have to live how I want, or it's not freedom. And I'm like, well, that doesn't really work because it doesn't, doesn't Kimmy get to think the exact same thing back.

And then we get all this polarization and craziness and, and it's everywhere. It's it, there's no writer, there's no like right side or wrong side, although one side is obviously wronger than the other. Um, but, but you know, there's, there's, you know, and I, and I hate that because I think that permeates, um, I feel like people are less willing. To be open in public because of this, they're less willing to share experiences with people. Our circles become tiny, tiny little circles and tiny, tiny little communities.

Everything's velvet roped because we're so worried about people seeing who we are and then putting their shit on us. And I, and I really dislike that. And I feel like when you are raised the way you were raised and kind of the way I was raised too, you, you grow up looking at that and it just feels wrong, right? Like you don't, maybe no, you don't always, I haven't certainly known how to express it. And I've certainly expressed it in ways that were unproductive at times, but, um, you know, this, this, you know, you, you, you know, people shouldn't put their stuff on you.

You shouldn't put your stuff on them. And I think this goes so much for the way that we interact and why I love your story about this guy, giving you feedback. And I'll be quiet while I'm talking about a storm. Well, I just love that. Oh, sorry.

No, no, no, no. I think it's great. Is that what he was, what, or I assumed it was he, I think you said he, um, was, was, it wasn't a judgment of you, not, it was a, Hey, here's a way for you to be more productive if you want to be this. And that, that to me is a hundred percent the right way to do this. It's so he did it because he cares.

Yeah. And I think that was the big thing. And, and, and I was taught, you know, when you are giving feedback, let's, that's honestly, that's the best way to have a hard conversation with somebody is, Hey, I need to have a hard conversation with you. Please know it's because I love you or it's because I care. It's, you know, this is not to hurt you as a person.

It's addressing the situation or the act or the, you know, the, the action rather, but I love everything that you just said within the last five minutes, cause it ties back to everything we just said at the beginning of, you know, uh, we can't expect people to communicate with us the way we want, just like people can't expect people to live their life the way they want them to live, you know, advice that, I mean, gosh, this could be a whole podcast on this topic itself. And, and it's interesting because, um, what you said these days, what I found is that it, people are very scared to voice their opinions. And I'm, believe it or not, as agree, I am a very agreeable person, but I am very opinionated in the things that I am passionate about, you know, and I've found, especially in the workplace, uh, when people need to give feedback, they get scared. Um, you know, whether it's, well, I don't want to be singled out or, uh, sorry, I got lost on that one. But what I'm getting at is because of the way, and, and we can blame it on social media, we can blame it on whatever we want, right?

That people do get ganged up on when you stand out, you know, and I think, and maybe you can relate to this, uh, you know, with, with your ADHD is I've grown up standing out. So to me, it's no different when you do get singled out and not, not being afraid of that. And not everybody has had that experience. So I had to humble myself and go, okay, Kimmy, not, not everyone has, not everybody has opened a business. First of all, too, the reason I'm bringing that up and to give you some context is when I'm talking to people about, you know, sales or running, you know, managing something.

And then I'm remembering, oh my goodness, I'm coming at it kind of from a completely different perspective, not everyone's ran a business, not everyone's gone through the experiences that, you know, that I've gone through. And I think having that perspective, regardless of what topic you're talking about, I think is really the key. And that's what would help these, you know, people feeling polarized. I mean, there's not, everyone's going to agree. You know, some of my best friends have the complete opposite political and religious views, you know, but we're like, we're good friends.

We just, we just know, Hey, you believe one thing. I believe one thing you voted for so-and-so, you know, it, but, but we're still friends at the end of the day because we're, we're kind and we respect each other. And I think that comes that, that, that word respect really resonates with me. I read an article a while back about, they actually interviewed, um, couples, like people that have married for like 50 years, people that, you know, got divorced and, you know, talked, they basically did this whole long interview. And at the end of the day, everyone, it all came back down to respect, you know, the ones that have been together forever.

Like they, they just have this respect that has been there for so long. And the ones that got divorced lost the respect. And I think, you know, regardless of the dynamic you have with somebody, whether it's at work, whether it is a romantic relationship, that respect piece is what's absolutely paramount, you know, to have a productive conversation. Couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more.

And I think, um, you know, one of the things that I've had to work with some of my younger employees on younger team members, especially my younger leaders is that, um, you don't get respect and you don't deserve respect. It's earned over time. And, and, and frankly, the best way to earn it is to give it as much as you possibly can, as often as you can to other people. And then over time, it will come back to you. And I feel like, unfortunately, call it, we can blame social media.

We can blame whatever. We can blame liberals. Um, you know, I think that, uh, we can blame right orthodoxy too. These people feel like because they show up and they have an opinion that somehow we all need to just respect them or I'm this, my job title is this. So I deserve respect or, you know, I'm a, I'm a, uh, uh, uh, you know, this, the insert demographic group.

I just, even people in the neurodiversity, it's like, we're not immune to that either. Yeah. It's like, it's like a hundred percent. No, you don't. You earn it.

That that's you earn it. Now, how much have you given out? Are you respectful of your three team members? Are you treating them? Are you understanding the way they want to be communicated with?

Are you listening to them? Are you putting, are you doing the same? Are you like, uh, uh, uh, putting, you know, taking the garbage out? You know, I always think through that idea of like, yeah, leaders take the garbage out, you know? And, uh, if you're not, then you don't fucking deserve respect.

Right. So like, there's a reason you're getting, they're talking behind your back because you're not, you haven't done the work. And, um, I think that's really, yeah. Or you haven't opened up enough to them for them to, to take the time to respect you and your, your vision. You know?

Yeah. I want to go back to something you said though, that I, that I completely agree with. And I would like to just, um, poke at a little more, uh, which is this idea of, um, when you've always felt different, being different, isn't hard. Um, I'm paraphrasing a little bit what you said, but I think that's essentially what you said. Um, I could not agree with that more.

Um, despite being a six foot four white guy, um, yeah, everyone thinks I'm like five, one you're tall. Yeah. Yeah. I have to put like hashtag tall in my bio. So people, uh, no, I can't tell you how many conferences I've been to and go like, I thought you were going to be short.

Oh my goodness. So, um, this, despite, you know, being a white dude from the North, um, I have always felt different my entire life. I've never been an insider and I've certainly never felt like an insider ever. Like I literally, I have never felt that way. I've never felt like I was in the cool kids club.

I've never felt like I was like easily accepted. Um, I've always been a little different and, um, there's a whole bunch of reasons for that. I won't get into, but so now as an adult at 42, I've certainly, I've also hit an age where I just don't give a fuck anymore. Um, so like, you know, couple that with also being rewarded today, like today's society. And I think where I am in my career, um, having different ideas delivered respectfully, which I have not always done just to be clear, um, delivered respectfully, um, is like, uh, it's like a super, like, uh, not to, I mean, overusing the word superpower.

It's, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a gift, right? You feel, you're like, Oh my gosh, today. I don't like, I can't even think what it would be like to be a best practices agency. I think, I think it's cute that people are best practices agencies, but if you're a best practice agency, you know what I know exactly how to beat you. And you know, that to me is something that I feel like people don't think about if you are living by the same rules that everyone else lives by, that's nice, but you're also in my opinion, way more vulnerable.

And, um, that's why I feel like people who feel different, I hope that conversations like this one, what it shows them is with respect and, and appreciation for the people you're communicating with. You don't just get to be an asshole because you feel different or have a different opinion. Um, that is, that is something you should cultivate and be proud of and surround yourself with other people that feel that way because, um, it is something truly that today I think employers are looking for, you know, respectfully people who can think differently. And do it in a way that isn't like being a jerk. Um, I think those people are going to make more.

I think that, uh, uh, uh, employers are out there searching for these types of people. I think these are the types of people that start companies that, that, that change dynamics, that, um, have conversations that people that open people's eyes. And, um, I just want more and more people to feel comfortable, um, with this type of mentality. You know, I, I guess I'm assuming to a certain extent you agree, but I'd love your thoughts on that. I, I do agree actually with, with everything that she said.

I think there's, there's two parts to this. I think these days being different has become mainstream. And now I need to become a conformist, right? No, don't do that. No, but, but I tread lightly with that because it's used, how do I say this?

It is used in a victim way in a lot from what I'm seeing. And that it's interesting. And it trying to think of an example that is, that would drive home my point, but let's say, well, I'll use myself, but pretend let's say, Oh, uh, I've got Tourette's and I think it's cool, but you know, you need to treat me different because I'm, because I'm different. Okay. That was really elementary, but that's basically what I'm getting at.

You know, is you'll see posts or, you know, here, uh, even if you just go, go to a restaurant and listen to some conversations around you and eavesdrop and, and it just, uh, boggles my mind, but how some people talk to each other, but I think, Hmm. Well, I think just while you're, while you're thinking about that, I think a lot of people, instead of doing the really hard work of fight, figuring out how to maximize the things that make them different. They're just way more willing to use those as crutches to get shallow feedback and shallow victories, um, that make them feel better. Right. So, so they'll post something on social media about whatever their thing that they want to be victimized about is to get likes.

Oh, you're, you're great. The way you are. Well, I'll be honest with you. I I'm a, I'm a, I'm at this point, I'm probably a Jordan Peterson disciple. I mean, outside of God, I think that his methodology for living is like right up there on par with like Marcus Aurelius and the Stoics.

And, you know, he says he has this clip that's passed around social media all the time. You can probably find it. Um, but it was in his book, 12 rules for life, where he basically says like, he's the clip will usually start with something like, he'll say like good enough, but with a question mark, and he's like, you're not good enough. Everybody wants to tell people you're good enough. You're not.

Why are you good enough? What do you mean? So, so, so you have this thing about you. It doesn't make, that doesn't mean that you're perfect the way you are. It doesn't mean that you're good enough the way you are.

It doesn't mean you should hate yourself, but it certainly doesn't mean that you shouldn't commit yourself to something you said earlier, which I respect and love constantly working to improve. And I feel like people find a thing that gives them an out or a, or a, or a rip cord or whatever. And, and then they just lean on that thing, right? It's like, you could have so easily taken the fact that you have Tourette's and had your life be half of what it is today because you used it as a crutch or a tool to get some sort of shallow victory when you needed it. But you obviously didn't.

You plowed through it. You learned how to become a musician. You learned how to become a champion bowler, right? And all these other things that, that make you who you are because you push through it and you constantly improved, which is, which I think should be held on the highest level of respect. But I think too often we find a thing that gives us a shallow victory that we can kind of play as a victim thing.

You know I have inflammation or, or I have a, I get migraines or I get whatever. And all these things are shitty. Don't get me wrong. They're shitty for sure. Um, and there's things way worse, but you know, then I met a guy, um, I was speaking in North Carolina.

Um, this was years ago. His name is a Sergeant fuck. Oh my gosh. Great name. Yeah.

No, I wish it was Sergeant fuck. His name is, um, oh my gosh. Aubie, Aubie. You'll know, uh, what, uh, gosh, Sergeant it's going to kill me, but he had, he had, um, a hand, an arm and both legs blown off in the war. And this dude, if you see him, he's got a big smile on his face.

He's still married. He's got two kids. He's got this bad-ass truck that he had rigged out. He does these speaking gigs. He's funny as hell.

Um, like he come, he came on stage, man. I'm going to, I'm not going to do it justice, but it's just an example. Like this dude could have just laid in bed, become a 400 pound blimp and said, because of all these things that happened to me, you know, none of this is my fault. And he didn't, he's got an apparel company that he uses the proceeds to help veterans with depression and veterans who've lost limbs. And he starts the talk.

He walks out and he's standing there and he's kind of looking at everybody and, uh, and he's kind of dead panning it, which I thought was great. And then he looks down at his crotch and he goes, I know what you're all thinking. And it's still there. And like the whole place just goes, you know, just starts laughing because you know, you don't know, you see this guy come up and your first instinct is he's going to be fucking depressed and he wasn't. And I was like, Oh my God, if that dude can, and I'm sure he has bad days too.

Don't get me wrong. Oh yeah. Everyone. Yeah. But for that dude, that dude to be able to be a Marine, like top of your life, physical fitness, bad-ass and to come home and then still have that mentality.

I'm like, God. So I got a couple of conversations happening in my brain. You know what I mean? Like I think I'm doing all right. Yeah.

No, well, and I, to, to, to drive home a point on that is, is shout out to you for using that as inspiration because people with a victim mentality would see that and, and go, well, uh, they, they, they just, they just wouldn't see it like that. You know, well, that won't happen to me or I'm not at that level. I can't, you know, and start making up this story in their head. So shout out to you for using that for inspiration. And I love that you brought up the 12 rules for life, Jordan Peterson.

Cause I just have a funny story. I have to share. Cause not many people follow him cause he is a polarizing guy, but so I bought my boyfriend a mug, uh, 12 rules for life mug off of Amazon thinking it was the Jordan Peterson, 12 rules for life. I didn't even read it. I just bought it.

Cause it said 12 rules for life. Jordan Peterson mug. Right. Ryan, this is literally what it says. The last two are the most hilarious.

Number 11, do not bother children while they're skateboarding. Number 12, pet a cat. When you encounter one on the street. Now, you know, those are not the rules. So someone like literally put these on there and I'm like, oh my gosh.

But it was hilarious. Yeah. That would be like, yeah, that's, those are like the most, most like skewed derivatives of what he's actually trying to teach. I actually think it's hilarious though. I actually think the thing, the thing I actually, I have, um, I save a lot of stuff.

I'm, I'm kind of crazy with, I love to be inspired. I love to take in people that was like, oh, that stuff's trite. Why do you like, I can get caught in like a positive, like I've broken the fucking TikTok algorithm because it doesn't show me any negative shit. Like if it's negative and I just, but I love, I can just consume. You should teach a class on that.

Honestly, I think that's, that's the problem is people get just bombarded with this junk. Well, I'm just, I'm not interested in negativity. I hate negativity. Frankly, to me, it couldn't be more of a turnoff, not just like in a partner, but like in another human that I interact with when they're negative. I just, I cannot stand it.

And frankly, I just don't tolerate it. Like if someone's going to be negative, I mean, we all have moments, right? You get moments. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a lifestyle of negativity.

Couldn't be more of a turnoff to me because so what the fuck you can call out shit. That's bad. Like good for you. That's not, that's not a, that's not a positive characteristic. You're not smarter because people will be like, well, I'm a realist.

No, you're an asshole. You know what I mean? Like you're a realist. Okay. I get it.

Life is hard. We all can realize it. We wake up every day. Like we get it, but how about we start to figure out, you know, better ways to, to operate. But, but so, so I get caught in these loops, but I have this one that I save and I have, and I'll go through, there's like a, there's like a few of them that I like will go through in this saved list and Instagram or one of them that I just watch.

And, and it's one of the ones that I watch almost every day is by Jordan Peterson. And it's this idea of, um, he's being interviewed and the guy says, you're telling men to be, uh, monsters. And he's like, yes. And the guy is kind of incredulous, right? I think he's probably a liberal.

Um, and he's, he's kind of incredible, incredulous. And Jordan Peterson's like, Jordan Peterson's like, what? So be weak. He's like, that's what we want. We want weak people, weak men.

And specifically he's talking about men, um, you know, in, in, in our society today. And he's like, so we need more weak men. He goes, no, he goes, you should not be weak. He's like, you should be an absolute killer monster and then learn how to control it. He said, because there's no virtue and being weak.

If you're weak, right. It's easy to be weak and to be deferential and to be a beta. If you're a deferential, weak beta, that's easy. But if you're an absolute killer and you're able to control it and, and make the decision to be better and to be a good person, despite the fact that inside you is a monster, that there's real virtue in that. And, um, that to me is something that I hold in my brain every day.

Now I wasn't in the military. I don't know how to do jujitsu. I have no idea how I would act in a situation that required you to be a monster. But I think the concept, the idea of be the most powerful dominant, you know, thing you can be. And I think this goes for women too.

It's just, he gets so attacked for his views on men. He was talking specifically about men. Um, uh, and then figure out how to be a better version of you with that inside you, that that's where real virtualized to me, that speaks to the virtue, uh, victimhood mentality. It speaks to constant improvement. It speaks to self-awareness.

It speaks to respect. It speaks to, um, understanding how to operate with personal agency, which is something I feel like we do not talk about at all in our society enough is what personal agency means and how important it is. And, um, I don't know how the hell we got that far down that. I don't know, but I honestly, I think this, this should become a second episode. We should definitely schedule a second one and go deeper into this.

This is fun. For sure. I, uh, no, you got to open invitation whenever you want to come back. I feel like we're just scratching the surface. So, so let me, um, I want to be respectful of your time and of the audiences.

So let me just hit you with a couple of things. Um, do you think that your, um, do you think that your desire to take on these hobbies and, and they're fairly, you know, intense things, you know, um, and, and being a musician and stuff, do you think that, um, that's, that's part of a way of dealing? Do you think that's who you are? Do you think it's part of a way of dealing with the way that your mind works? Because I know I've found that in my own life.

I research shit. I am, if I get something on my brain, I have to research it really. And it's just the way that I work. And it's because of the way my brain works. Do you think that that is the same for you?

I think so. And I think, uh, a lot of it is because it's hard for me to just sit tight and my, you know, my brain wants to do something. So mine, rather than doing the research, I just go and take action. I'm like, okay, I'm going to go try this thing. If I fail miserably, like, eh, whatever.

I learned something, you know, but I still, I, I'm always looking for something new. And then of course, when I do it, I want to be the best I can be at it. That's hence where the competitive nature comes in. You know, like I, I enjoy recognition. I enjoy being a winner.

So I find something I want to do. And I'm like, okay, let's go do it the best we can. You know? And I think a lot of it is just like you said, the way my brain works and thank goodness because of my environment. Once again, my, my mom was really encouraging to try new things.

And she literally said, you can't say you don't like it until you try it. You know, you know, like I remember she had me play soccer and I don't want to play soccer, by the way, I hated soccer, but eventually I tried softball and love that and, you know, and so on and so forth. Right. But because she constantly was pushing, just try it, just try it. I think I brought that into the rest of my life and thanks mom.

Thanks mom and dad. You know, a lot of it goes back to that. Well, I think that you're a testament to how someone can be quote unquote different. I'm doing air quotes. You can't see me, but also highly successful.

I've, I probably talked too much, but I was just excited to talk to you. We will absolutely do this again. I know you have to run. I'll make sure I have your LinkedIn, uh, on the show notes and people should definitely follow Kimmy on LinkedIn. Where is there any other places you'd like to send them?

Um, they can, I'm on all the socials. I'm on Facebook, uh, Instagram. The good news is I have a really unique name. Kimmy code Donahue. Haven't found anyone else with that name yet.

So, uh, definitely look forward to connecting with everyone. And thank you so much for this, Ryan. This was super cool. Yeah. Thank you.

I appreciate it. And I look forward to the next time. Have a great one. Awesome. Bye.

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