Unlocking Transformative Leadership: The Power of Curiosity, Presence, and Resilience | Dr. Eric Peeples

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Oft times, we live such a high level of urgency that we, we, we don't have time to stop and smell the roses. We're kinda like, "I'll just go in the store and buy some," versus me stopping and actually looking at something living. Every encounter I have with a person is a treasure hunt. Let's go. Yeah.

Make it look, make it look, make it look easy. Ice stack up in- The Ryan Hanley Show shares the original ideas, habits, and mindsets of world-class original thinkers you can use to produce extraordinary results in your life and business. This is the way. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the show. We have a tremendous episode for you today, a conversation with Dr.

Eric Peoples. Dr. Eric is a keynote speaker, executive coach, and pastor, and we dive deep into what he is seeing out in the marketplace among leadership trends, how his most successful clients are using certain mindsets, certain leadership mindsets to dial in and to finish big with the projects they have in front of them. This is an absolutely phenomenal episode. If you are in a leadership position or ever wish to be in one, take notes, my friends.

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Eric Peoples. Dr. Eric Peoples, my man, I'm so excited to have you on the show. Dude, so good to be here with you, man. Love, love just what you're doing.

Love the energy. So excited. Dude, I, um, I always know it's gonna be a good conversation when I have to say, like, "Stop talking," like "Let me hit record." Like, you know what I mean? When we're, when we're, like, kicking it before we go live, and, uh, and, and we're just, like, like, crushing conversation and we, I, I have to, like, catch myself and go, "This is, like, what we should be talking about 'cause people are gonna wanna hear this."

So, um- Yeah ... you know, I got to see you speak live. We got to spend, um, you know, probably 45 minutes chatting before you talked. I kinda caught you, uh, on the side at the, at the event. And, um, dude, I just love your approach, your nature. Like, um, I, I'm always, I'm always intrigued by guys who are confident, who are, uh, strong character, strong-willed, strong in their beliefs, but at the same time have this, like, humility and understanding and compassion for people.

And, like, that's what immediately drew me in to you. Wow. Thank you. Not to just stroke your ego right off the rip. No, no, dude, thank you so much.

But, um, but I was so, I'm so impressed by the way that you handle yourself in those environments, 'cause I know especially when you're a speaker, you're getting bombarded by people all over the place, and sometimes it can be, I don't wanna say overwhelming, but it's just you're trying to do your thing and you get all this stuff. And, and you were just so generous with your time, and I just wanted to start the, the conversation by saying how much I appreciated that. Well, it, it was a, it was, you know, it's, uh, it's a, was a joy to connect with you. And w- I think one of the things, too, that works, uh, both ways in the sense of, you know, there's something dynamic when another leader who's a high achiever, who's going after it, has curiosity. And when I say curiosity, not just kind of to curiosity to poke holes, but literally, like, you have a learning attitude that is, it's ...

I love it. That's, that to me, I, I think humility, if, if you're a learner, a lifelong learner, humility's a part of the package. You c- Yeah ... if you walk into a room and think, uh, "I'm the, you know, I'm the biggest and baddest, and I know everything," then you're in the wrong room. Find another one, 'cause dude, I, I, I love learning, so appreciate what you're sharing. Yeah.

I think that's a really good point. I love that, like, I think one of the first descriptors on your Instagram profile is lifelong learner, 'cause I'm the same exact way. I read voraciously, uh, a lot of different topics. Um, I just love taking in information. And, and one of the things, uh, I actually had a conversation with a friend about this the other day.

Uh, he said something similar, like if you're, if you're the, you know, the, the alpha in the room or whatever, you're in the wrong room. And, and I said, "Well," I, I said, "You know, I, I agree with that," and I, we always wanna be surrounding ourselves with people who are gonna push us. Mm. But I also think there is something to the fact that, um- You may think you're the alpha in the room, but there's always something you can learn from people, right? Yeah.

Like, like someone who's just starting out, well, they might just be starting out in this part of their life, but maybe, uh, they went through something when they were growing up, or they're also a, a concert pianist on the side or whatever. And yeah, maybe, like, in a certain context you're the alpha, but I feel like if we, like you said, approach all situations with curiosity and humility, there's s- we can learn from everybody. Hmm. And, uh, I think too often, uh, people hit a certain level of success or whatever, uh, knowledge or status, and it's like, well, you know, what could I possibly learn from that person? They're only doing X amount of revenue.

Or their business is this, or they're only this old. And it's like, yeah, except everybody has these ridiculous amazing stories, and you probably know this from your podcast too, and there's just so much you can learn from people. Yeah. Yeah, and you know, I, I think that ch- with that whole learning piece it's just, again, I, I just, I think the, just the, you know, the older I get, the more experiences that I have, the places I go, I think there's the reality of, you know, we're in a, being in a room and, and learning from life experiences and hearing what other people think. I think the gift of presence, uh- Mm-hmm ... and being, um, uh, you know, listening and not just, you know, metacognition, where you're listening and you already have an answer for what someone's saying.

But when you're listening and you're really listening and someone can... You're s- can say to a person, "I, I'm actually hearing you. You're making a statement," or, "Hey, tell me a little bit more of that. How, how did that happen?" I just, I'm always curious.

You know, I'm on a plane a lot and I say to, I might say to someone like, "Hey, so how'd you get started?" And it's never like, you know, you're connec- you're connecting the dots, but life is like this. It's v- w- rarely is it just linear, right? Yeah, yeah. And it just, I love that.

I, I, it's just, it's a, it's a joy to me just to have experiences. How do you, how do you cultivate presence in your life? Because, uh, I, I, and I've mentioned it on the show so the audience knows this, but I have like diagnosed very high level ADHD, and for a long time I was that guy who, like, you'd be on the last syllable of your last word of what I perceived was the last word of your sentence, I'm already responding like on top of you, right? Or like I'm trying to project how your sentence is gonna finish in my head as I'm listening to you and I can't wait to respond, even if I'm incredibly interested in what you said. And I've had to really work hard, and actually part of my work on this podcast, even though I literally just did it to you, uh, part of my work on this podcast has been trying, it- it's been like an exercise- Hmm ... in trying to be a better listener and being more present in the moment.

For someone, um, that, that at least from the outside as an observer is very good at being present in the moment, how do you... Do you work on it? Is there a practice? Is there, is it just something that you, do you prep yourself sometimes? Like I sometimes in the hotel room will like, "Be present in this moment.

Nothing else matters for the next two hours. You're gonna go down, you're gonna shake some hands, get to know what's going on. Do your thing. Afterwards you're gonna listen to people," you know, whatever. Like, I will like almost prep talk myself to be present in the moment.

Uh, do you have anything that you do like that? Or how have you cultivated that presence? I think there's two things, and that- that's a great question because, um, oftentimes we live at such a high level of urgency that we, we, we don't have time to stop and smell the roses. We're kinda like, "I'll just go in the store and buy some," versus me stopping and actually looking at something living. And so one of the things that, um, I train myself in just from, um, being around older leaders who are brilliant, uh, brilliant people, and that is every encounter I have with a person is a treasure hunt.

And so, uh, like me talking to you, I'm like, man, I, this guy, I love... Uh, you know, m- my attraction to your heart was for, um, the, the heart for people. Like you wanna help people win. And so when I hear that I'm like, "Dude, I'm in." However I can be a part of that story, that journey, like that's easy for me.

Now, I can tell you that there have been lots of, um, you know, um, conversations, lots of like just, you know, people like, "Hey, I've got this big idea," and it's bigger than a screen, right? So it's like crazy stuff, and you're like, "Um yeah, but are you making a difference? Are you making it matter for others?" And I think one of the... And so that's, that's one.

I'm just curious. E- I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be with Ryan today and it's gonna be a treasure hunt, man. He's gonna say something that I'm gonna take a note on and it's gonna m- it's gonna spark that. And the other part just from a real practical standpoint is, is that, uh, I actually, um, I have my ring on, my wedding band, and I will sit there and sometimes if it's flying, you know, conversation with others, I will actually, uh, put my hand, my hand over my ring and I will spin it 15, 20 times just to make sure that I'm hearing what you're saying. Yeah.

That I'm, I'm not engaging because I think you're at the end of your sentence or whatever, because I, um, much like you I'm a f- my mind works really quickly. And so, uh, I have to create, I have to create pauses, otherwise I will step, I'll step on the moment versus add to it. Yeah. I, uh, I read, I was reading, um, Eckhart Tolle's The, The Power of Now- Hmm ... which I highly recommend to everyone. That's good.

Um, I found the second half to be a little repetitive, but the first like 50 to 60% of the book is just absolute pure gold- Hmm ... for this particular topic. And, uh, in there, um, there was this idea of space, like building space between your response. And it's, it's not just, one, so you can collect your thoughts and make sure that your response is thoughtful and something that you actually mean to say, but it also shows the other person It, it's, it's a, it's respect for that other person in the conversation. Because when you finish, when that person finishes and you immediately jump in... Now, there's moments, maybe you're with your buddies or your friends, and you're all jacked up and you're telling a story, and, and that's a different environment.

But when you're in a moment where you're, you're, you are trying to learn from someone and you are listening to them, and I've really tried to do this, I'm gonna, I'm probably gonna mess it up a couple times on the show, uh, forgive me for that. But, uh, what it does is it shows that other person I care enough about you to, to delay my response and actually be thoughtful in how I respond to you. Because it, and, and, and if you're, you're listening to this, guys, you know, one way that you can see it is how often when you first respond do you correct that initial three, four words that you start with, or do you say a few words and then almost repeat those couple words again before you get to your thought? What that shows is I haven't actually collected myself enough to respond yet, and what you've, I've found I can be much more thoughtful in my responses when I try to build in even a beat, just a, just a beat, and that person, now they want to listen to you. They don't...

You know what I mean? Versus, you know, somebody, somebody say something to you and you respond, and you can just tell they're just like, "Ugh," you know, "I don't, I don't care what you're saying." It's just a, it's an interest- it's such an interesting thing. Um, the other thing in that book, and I apologize, I'm talking, I just wanna get this out of my face. Um, he's got this idea that I...

It makes perfect sense when you hear it. Mm. It's a little ethereal, uh, so I do apologize to you guys if you're not into this kinda stuff, but I think it's valid. He makes the very clear point early in the book that there is literally no such thing as the future or the past. Hm.

Doesn't exist. It's, all that exists is this moment right now with you, and to spend every moment that we spend out in the future or back in the past is w- is essentially a waste of time. Not that we shouldn't do self-reflection. Hm. Not that we shouldn't do goal-setting.

Those are powerful things. But if I'm sitting here going, "Okay, I gotta get through this conversation with Eric, and then I got this thing I gotta do for this project over here and this pr-", now I'm not here with you. I'm, I'm not, I'm not in this moment with you. I'm living in another time or place, and it doesn't allow you to be at your best. Hm.

Sounds like sports psychology. Yeah. Uh, you know, the last, and, you know, especially working with, uh, some leaders in the field of, uh, with high achievers as it relates to sports, um, how do you, the last miss you made, the gl- poor golf swing you took, you know, living in the present, living in the now. Um, that's, I think that's a very interesting thought. I also do believe in the time and energy that we invest in the moment is, um...

I've heard it said, a professor told me, called it one time the gift of presence. And so that I'm able to, it's, it's not only is, um, me exchanging the gift of being present here, but I'm also receiving the gift of, uh, understanding, learning, uh, curiosity, uh, growth. Uh, and I, I think when you curate your re- your respective relationships, there's, you don't find yourself saying, "Wow, what a waste of time," because you're living with such a high level of intentionality. Not, uh, just at a, from a give and take standpoint, but you're going, "Wait a second." Are you tired of endless follow-ups and missed opportunities in your sales process?

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I'm gonna be in the right room with the right people at the right time, and so being a good investor or even a good steward of my time and energy, that curates, uh, the moment from being simply an opportunity, right, and being, like, uh, distracted by those s- thing, to understanding, wait, that's a distraction. This is a real opportunity because I'm in a room with curious people, I'm learning, I'm growing, I'm developing, I'm adding value. And so the idea of past or present, I think that, you know, um, how you learn, uh, also has to be a part of that factor, too. Yeah. Uh, and that's just, you know, from a, you know, from a purely educational standpoint.

Some are organic learners, uh, others are not. So, um, you know, we all c- we, we can write books with theories, too. I mean, maybe it works in his world. Yeah. Uh, and maybe for others too.

Imagine what your life would be like if you were fully present in every moment, viewing it through the filter, the, of opportunity. Where, like, every moment, every interaction, from the coffee that you're handed by a barista to the exchange of a Coke at the, at the counter at a gas station, or a conversation like this one. If, if you pa- if you were fully present and passing it all through the oppor- uh, the filter of this- This is an opportunity. And maybe that opportunity is very small and nothing comes of it, but you don't know if you're always just projecting out or assuming you know. You know?

I mean, that's the other thing. And, uh, I find that I sometimes, I guess in my past, I, I, I've worked very hard, especially as I, uh, accumulated more leadership positions, and, and really that's where I wanna take our conversation ultimately is into leadership. But, um, was... You, you, by being, by being present, you, you're, you're able to, to fully grasp each opportunity as presented and dissect it for what it is, and instead of what I did in the past was go, "I already assume I know what Eric's gonna say, so I'm just gonna kinda plow through this," instead of, "Man, I wonder where Eric's gonna take this conversation today. Like, man- Mm ...

I, I, I can't wait to find out where we go. Like, what, what branch of, of, of the brain or knowledge or experience are we gonna touch?" Like, it's just a... It's like this tiny little reframing, but man, it, it opens up the world. And, and that kinda leads me into, uh, into where I wanted to go with you.

You, you work with a tremendous number of high achievers all over the world. You, we were talking about a little before, you've, you know, you're recently in Ecuador, you're traveling to Brazil, you're all over the country. Um, you know, when I first met you, you were at a mastermind full, a, a room full of 100 of the, some of the best minds in the insurance industry, high achievers. Um, like, I guess what is the state of leadership today? When you're, when we're talking about- Mm ... high achievers, the, the, the individuals, the men and women that are just, they're dialed in, their team's behind them, things are going well, like what is the state of that leader today?

What does that look like? I think that's a really great question. Uh, because we all have, uh, you know, we all have internal pressure going on and external pressures that are going on. And so depending upon your vertical market, I, what I am seeing is it depends on the pressures that people are actually, um... I wouldn't even say under, but I would say the pressures they're responding to.

And so, um, one of the things I love, uh, doing in, in my travel is I love helping leaders lead. I love them, helping them win and focus and finish strong. And one of those pieces is, uh, in winning is, uh, you know, what's important now. And so the, I would say the universal struggle, uh, when the pressure's on is becoming, uh, living from in a silo, living in isolation. Uh, your own, um, e- e- even, uh, I, I would say it's, it's almost like you're, you're, it's not cocooning, it's just, um, running hard after, uh, running hard after things.

And, and so the, some of the questions that are popping up in the running hard, uh, after things, and, and that could either be you're acquiring stuff, that's also the, a knee-jerk reaction sometimes. Um, I, I have less, uh, of a problem with people going after stuff, because you can always sell it, than, uh, where you're burning your life and time. You can always make more money, but you can't make more time. And so I'm watching the burn ratio. And so I'll, I'll say this, um, uh, and from a professional standpoint, I'm seeing people who are struggling with the intergenerational disconnect.

Um, you know, the average, uh, 35-year-old is spending as much time on the video games as a 15-year-old now. Um, your, uh, people are after, you know, um, on their social media, you know, show the best, hide the rest. Uh, 34% of our population is dealing with, um, w- has, um, being interviewed said, surveyed, that they wrestle with, um, loneliness once a week. Uh, some people think about being lonely, uh, once a week, and 10% say they wrestle with loneliness, um, every day. So this isn't like, you know, and I, uh, you know, Joe Average.

I'm talking about people who are moving the dial in some fr- form or fashion. And so when you think about how, uh, how that's directly connected to, um, the pressures, I would s- to, to winning is it's, it's, uh, the misalignment with what's important now. Uh, what's important now, uh, from a 30 or 40-year-old is different than what's important now for a 60-year-old. And so I think it's, it's those, having those moments of clarity where we really come to grips with in our lives where we're going, um, "I need to make sure that I am around..." Um, again, I, I'm, I'm a big proponent about the right relationships.

I'm around people that can challenge me to curate my moments. Like for instance, um, do you need to go to, um, do you need to go to Hawaii for a month, or should you go to Hawaii for two weeks because you, that's where you're gonna be best recharged? Like, like the difference... Se- it, it could sound really, um, granular, but that's where the, that's where the, the kind of the crazy decisions are made, when you're talking to yourself. And I'll, I'll say this a- and let you go here.

One of the c- conversation. One of the things I found about Eric Peoples is, is that when I have a conversation with myself, me, myself, and I, I'm always right. I've never had a bad idea that I haven't thought, "Gee, you know what?" And without talking to someone else. I'm like, "That's a, that's a great idea."

Sometimes it's not. So who are you talking to to help create friction, friction's good, to focus on what it is you say you're after? So there's a bunch of questions that I have in there. The first one is specifically about loneliness, and this can be in your work, in your personal feelings, however you wanna answer. Part of me...

So I like being alone. I, I enjoy it. Um- I have two kids, I have a, a decent number of friends. Uh, I have a, a, a woman who I've been seeing for, uh, a little more than a year now, and it's a great relationship and everything is good. I love spending time with her.

But at the same time, I really enjoy being alone, and that wasn't always the case. Uh, that's something that I've worked on and, and whatever. Do you think that some of the feelings of loneliness are a misalignment with what spending time with yourself really is, or people aren't doing the work? Like, to me... Part of it, to me, is, like, can...

Is there... Can we reframe loneliness as positive time spent with ourself? And, and is it maybe culturally we just have- we've lost the skill of being alone? Okay. I'll, I'll say it this way, and, and I'm reminded, my wife tells me to, "Don't, when you make two points, make sure you finish the second one," because otherwise- ...

I just, I have two points, but I get hung up on the first one. But the first one is there's a difference between loneliness and solitude. Mm-hmm. What you're speaking about is solitude. You've got all these other in- relational factors that, that, um, make you who you are, uh, that, that you, that...

So you're, there's a giving out, right? You're, you're pouring out and you're giving out and you're responsible for things. You've recognized that responsibility, and so now you're saying, uh, "This, I got, need some me time," which is healthy. Um, most people don't have me time because they don't like me time. Mm.

And what I'm talking about is they don't like themselves. Mm. And when you don't like yourselves, then the sound of silence is the echo of your misalignment, dissatisfaction is so loud that you start putting and pulling things into your life. You, you, you, you create a vacuum by nature because you're trying to fill it with something. And so you hear the words fulfilled.

I'm not fulfilled. Well, um, you know what? It's, it's... Fulfillment is, I think is directly connected to even the seasons of your life. I remember for my...

You know, you said your, you, you have two boys. Uh, you know, um, I I kn- I... Go ahead. You were gonna say something? No.

Okay. I know the funny part about it. It's like, but fulfilled, I remember when my daughter was 14 or 14 months old, and fulfillment was her sleeping through the night. We're like, "Oh, man." Yeah. 'Cause it's like, you know, it's like rest is a weapon.

Sleep deprivation is, is, is used for torture. Over, you know, 50, 50 hours to 70, you're cracking, you're telling, you're singing, you're telling everything. And so w- in the season you're in, what does it look like for you to live a fulfilled life? Well, you just find what's important now, so now let's focus on that. How do we get there?

We, how do we get from here to there? And so if you... If... So loneliness is the sense of unfulfillment. Solitude is where you're able to rest, reflect, and even an attitude of gratitude is, is...

That thread is we throughout the conversation. And so, you know, uh, there, there's a, there's a, I think there's a major... There's, there's this, uh, disconnect when people... Are, are, are you lonely? Well, most people who say they're lonely are burnt out.

Well, you c- you're giving energy to the wrong things. Mm-hmm. And the, and the, the drive to not disappoint people is, um, is dangerous. Yeah. One thing that helped me in this area was I, I've been described as a disagreeable person.

Uh- ... and I used to take that as a negative. And I did a lot of reading on this, and actually, uh, there's a guy, um, his name's Eric Weinstein. I don't know if you've- Mm ... heard him or... He's a, a... I, I'd say he's a intellectual to a certain extent.

He's a physics guy, math guy, and he does a lot of podcasts and stuff, and I really fell in love with his work. And he, he talked about on this show, and this was like a year or two ago that I, that I heard this, he talked about his relationship to his disagreeableness. And he's like, "We have a, we've, we've developed a, f- we've developed a false narrative around what it means to be disagreeable." Mm. And what he said was, "Questioning things, having your own opinion, understanding and being okay with I could have an opinion that I share with you today that you could just say, 'I hear you.

I don't agree.'" Mm-hmm. And technically, that pushback is a, is disagreeableness in the purest sense of the context, but it's am I going to be okay with this person that I respect, enjoy, and care about disagreeing with the opinion I have? Mm-hmm. And I am.

You know? And it took a long time to get there. And what, and my point in this little diatribe is that when you start to become okay... I think a lot of that loneliness, that sense of, of being alone is I want, I need everyone to like me and agree with me, and I need to agree with them, and everything needs to be okay and happy and fun, and it's like, that is just simply not life. And in fact, when you start to be okay with the fact that I can enjoy someone, care about someone, and we could have two or three things that we just intrinsically disagree about, and that's perfectly fine, all of a sudden you start to go, "Oh, like, I'm not alone.

That person likes me. We're connected. We just disagree on this one topic over here," which is perfectly fine, 'cause there's like 17 other topics- Yeah ... that we do agree on. And we, like, don't, we don't focus on all the things that we do agree on, that we, shared values we have. We tend to focus on that one value that we disagree on, and then that creates this disconnect, and now all of a sudden we're, like, we're isolated and by ourselves.

And, uh, I just don't think we talk about That type of stuff, because coming all the way back to leadership, I mean, geez, you, you know and can speak to it even more than I can. Like, when you're a leader, there- everybody's gonna disagree with you about something you say, right? I mean, you just... That's part of the job. It is, and w- I...

One of the big challenges that we face is, is that when you think that leadership is a popularity contest- Mm ... then you, then, uh... And there's two things that happen. Let me say two things that happen, and then I'll just actually say the two. Number one is you're not being true to yourself, but number two, the people who think they know you have actually never met you. Imposter syndrome.

Well, I don't wanna say this, because what happens if I get in trouble? Well, what does happen if you get in trouble? Now, a- again, I think there's a different, as far as... I, I ask also pre-qualified people in the conversations. I ask them, "Hey," so I don't say, "Tell me your toughest moment."

I go, "Have you ever played a sport?" And depending upon what the sport is, like, what, what'd you play? Baseball? Was- Uh, baseball. Yeah, baseball.

Yeah, okay. Baseball. So let's see. If I... I mean, can you count how many times you got hit by a ball?

I mean, come on. I mean, that's just... That, that's a part of it. And you... And, and the thing is, is that you have a resolve that you didn't quit.

You did not win every game you played. And so, uh, there's a dif- there's a disconnect even in the leadership development process now. Um, we... It's, it's, there's the, there's a, the push of followership development pro- process versus leadership development process. Uh, one of the folks who mentors me, he's had a lot of influences on John Maxwell.

Um, you know, for, for me, I'm okay, if you will, with, um, my, uh, understanding my inadequacies. Because I know I need to grow, I know I need to learn, then, um, I'm not threatened by you saying that you don't think I'm, uh, I'm enough. That's okay. Doesn't matter. Uh, you know, um, I, I, I, I'm, I'm picking at pickleball.

I don't know why I'm picking pick- pickleball. Everyone says don't, don't play it. But I'm a sup- I'm a gr- I'm an aggressive person. I played sports. I played football, which is full contact, right?

Mm-hmm. And I'm thinking of... I said, "I'm gonna learn how to play pickleball, uh, in the, in the, on, on kind of in the back 40," because, um, I know I played racquetball, table tennis. T- I, I played racket sports, and I just love, uh, golf. I love the part of just full on, full tilt, right?

And so, like, I've gotta know my audience, but I n- also need to know me. Learning the game, the different pieces of it. But when you are an athlete, I think there's a part of the mix in your life as a leader where you understand what it means to lose, having the resolve to get back up, and also the making the decision. Like, you know what? The only thing I'm...

I didn't lose. I'm learning. So I, uh, football was my... Baseball is my love, but football was my favorite sport. So I was, uh, I had a scholarship to play football in college, and I got three concussions my senior season, and it ended my football career.

Yeah. Good. Um, but what I loved about football in particular, uh, and, and baseball has a lot of this too, but I, I'm similar to you. It was like all those societal, uh, uh, governors that we have to put on our personality to, like, integrate into like, you know- Society ... rational, human, like, niceness. In football, you can take or you can turn all those governors off, and you just get to be 100% aggressive.

And what, what I think, you know, what we miss when we watch highlight reels or we look at our favorite stars is we look at the great catch or throw or tackle, and we don't see how the play before, that linebacker who got the sack on the highlight reel, the play before they got blindsided by a guard that they didn't see, and they were picking themselves up off the ground. Yeah. You know what I mean? And they got drool coming out of their mouth and blood, and they're, you know, they're kinda like shaking it off. Yet they turn around, get the play call, get back on their, in their position, and then they make the highlight reel play.

And you're, you're forced in the mo- in, in, at least from my experience. I've never played sports like rugby and some of the others that are also full contact. But y- you are forced to say, "All this pain I feel is not gonna stop me from the goal that I have," in whatever the position is I play in that particular sport. Uh, it translates... I, I do think it translates to a lot of different sports, a lot of different things.

But in particular, I, I find football players get, one, they get this, like, meathead charac- uh, tag, which is- ... I think completely false. If anyone who's played the game, you cannot be a meathead. You can act like a meathead, but you are not a meathead. The, the meatheads don't make it.

Yeah. Um, and you know, there's, it's fu- I think they act like meatheads 'cause it's fun. Who doesn't wanna act that way? But- ... it, uh, but, like, in regard, they're all... You know, the most successful are incredibly, incredibly- Mm-hmm ... intelligent individuals.

And you know, you, you are going to get knocked down. Not like, "Oh, I didn't make this sale." Like, literally knocked to the ground and have to pick yourself back up and re-engage in the game. And if you have an ounce of hesitation, you are gonna get knocked back down to the ground again until you lose that piece of you. And I think that type of mentality is what we need to have as leaders today is like, it's okay.

Like, you know, we look at... I, uh, I'm, I'm listening to Walter Isaacson's biography of Elon Musk, right? Mm. And I, and I love Elon Musk. I, I think he has an incredible number of personality traits that I think could be questioned.

However- Yeah ... this is an individual- Really ... who at the, in the purest sense, has been knocked to the ground so many times, and he just keeps getting back up, and that's how he got to be there. Mm-hmm. At also a level of craziness and a willingness to destroy his personal life, and all these other things. But- ... but I just... It's like we've lost- We've lost aggression.

Do you agree with that? Mm. Like, we- we've- we've- we've made aggression into this toxic thing that I don't think it has to be. It, it can be toxic, and I don't mean yelling and being a jerk, but there's an aggressive nature to leadership that I feel like has been, has been, I don't know, just put in this box of bad, and I- I just, I- I- I don't know how to break it out, I guess. Uh, I- I think you're on, you're onto something because it also, too, is understanding the audience.

You know, it's people who, um... You know, if we were sitting in a room, uh, listening to a leader share about, uh, all the wins they've had, our curiosity would be sparked. Tell me about your failures. Tell me about the challenges. You didn't get from here to there without some valleys, some potholes, some challenges, some pick yourself up, dust yourself off.

You didn't even get there maybe, uh, you didn't even get there by just picking yourself up. There are others who helped you get up- Mm-hmm ... and to move. Or, and that- that, you know, that just blows up the fallacy of self-made man. No. There- there's some resolve and determination that you have to have when it's obvious what your assignment is, and I- I'm a per- you know, as a person of faith, understanding purpose.

It is what... I know why I get up in the morning. I know what I'm after. I- I- I love helping leaders lead, but there also is that part, the vetting process inside of me that says, um, "You know what? Uh, it's, you've gotta want it."

If I want what you want more than what you, more than you, then I'm wasting my time. Mm-hmm. But if I can throw gas on a fire, if I can open a door for you or tell s- tell, connect you with someone you need to know, then hey, awesome. I'm- I'm excited to be a part of it. And this, this, um, domestication of the leadership approach I think is a great fallacy, and in some ways, uh, why many aren't winning.

Uh, and when I'm talking about winning, I'm not just talking about, hey, winning what's- what's important now in the sense of like, uh, I'm talking about winning overall, where the grand scheme of things you're able to say, "This is the target. This is what I'm after, and I'm finishing well," where people, it's undisputed. You know, people can, people can say whatever they want to about, um, Elon Musk, but the bottom line is, is that, uh, he's winning. In some form or fashion, he's winning in a way that others would want to. Yeah.

And I think it's perfectly reasonable to say, "I don't want his life." Right. I don't want his life. No. He's even said, "You don't want my life."

However, to throw out everything... And I, and I had a, I hate when I do this, but I had this online argument, uh, about Elon Musk with a guy, which I, you know, whatever. And he's saying, "What has he ever achieved?" And I- I'm like- Oi ... and I- and I'm like, "I get it. You..."

What it ultimately came down to was he didn't like his personality, and it's like, okay. I can appreciate that you don't like his personality. I, his personality doesn't really bother me that much. I wouldn't want his life. I, you know, I wouldn't want that, but how can you deny results, right?

And- It- ... and I had a podcast guest, um, and I'm gonna butcher his last name, Rajiv. I apologize. It's Rajiv Peswara. Rajiv Peswara. If you go back, he- he- he, his shtick is, um, uh, and I don't mean shtick in a negative way, is, uh, positive autocratic leadership.

Mm. And he got there because he was doing a survey for some client, and it came back that over 16,000 responses, they date- they had a, like, um, what would you want in a leader and all these characteristics, like a personality test, but what you would want of a leader. And it came back unequivocally, uh, 20 count- more than 20 countries, 16,000 plus responses that an autocratic leader like Steve Jobs or Elon Musk is what people want to follow. Mm. And I found it so intriguing because everything we read today is, you know, this nice kinda beta personality and everybody's equal and all this kinda stuff, and- and I, and I, it- it- those are, come from good places.

I- I don't mean those to be, to- to downgrade those. But at the end of the day, we need someone who's got a vision and- and we believe is gonna pull the ship. You know, you s- these, you know, great leaders, you know, stand behind their team and- and, uh, poor leaders stand out in front, and I'm like, I don't think that's true. I think, I think great leaders do stand out front, and they act as the tip of the spear. They- they deflect all the, they take all the fodder.

They take all the hits and the flak so that their team can be amazing. If you're standing behind them, they're taking that crap. And I want that guy or- or gal who's gonna be like, "Screw everyone. We're going." Like, you know, we're gonna get bloodied and beaten and yelled at, but at the end of the day, we're gonna get to this place that we all want to go to, and it, it takes a little bit of like, like oomph, like, like guts, like a little bit of, uh, uh, um, Angela Duckworth's grit.

Like, you, you need this, and- Mm ... I just feel like we don't cultivate it enough anymore. No, well, it's, I don't, I- I don't think that we cr- I- I culti- I think cultivation for, uh, I would say for leaders to lead, uh, requires someone giving an opportunity and taking a risk, and, uh, and it also requires failment, uh, failure. And so what ends up happening is, again, that whole idea of domestication as far as leaders. We- we, you know, it's- it's that part where we, uh...

A- a- and I think that also there's that, there's that it can be, uh, generational, but also, too, from a global standpoint, there's lots of nations and people and cultures that that is not the mindset. The mindset is very much along the lines of, of my ceiling is your floor. So if I'm gonna help launch you into your next, your next now, then I've gotta tell you the truth. I- I can't, I- I can't pretend that you're not gonna take some hits, you're not gonna take some shots. That's a part of the mix.

That's... When's the last time you went to buy a car and you asked them do they have a w- did it come, does it come with a windshield? No. It comes with a windshield. It comes with tires.

It comes with a challenge. And you know what? Before you drive it a lot, you have to have insurance, 'cause they're betting you do have an accident, and you're betting you don't. No, you're betting you, you're like, "I'm gonna have an accident." No, no, no.

That- that's, they're betting you don't. And so we have challenges. We have stuff. Um- And, you know, I just look at this and I go, uh, if we're, if we wanna be people who impact the future, then we've gotta act like it. We've gotta have the conversations.

Uh, you know, I say to my leaders, "I'm not here for your comfort." Uh, I work with... A- and I, I don't say that trying to, uh, uh, as an ogre or trying to be, but I will not be, um, I would say domesticate in the sense of saying, "Listen," um, you know, I work with people who it's like live fire. I work with warriors. I work with people who are all about life to the floor.

And so for me, I, uh, having conversations are like, "Come on. Come on, people." Like, "Let's go." Like, I don't... They don't, they don't need to be amped up.

They are. They don't need to be, uh... I- I- I... They need to n- understand their big deal is loyalty. Their big deal is, um, we are committed to the cause to win, and here's the other part, whatever it costs.

I think what some of the things you're saying, if I had to sum it up, I'd say the challenge is right now we're d- we're, we're, we're dealing with people who've counted the cost and they think it's, it'd be better for Ryan to pay than for me. Yeah. Um- Uh, yeah. S- slightly, I wanna, something you said just spurred a question that I'm interested in, and, uh, you can answer however you want or not answer it if you, if you feel uncomfortable. But, um, you know, you said man of faith, my- myself as well.

Uh, I wear a cross. I've tattooed a cross on my arm. I actually have two, two crosses on my arm. Um, I, I, I very much, um, uh, faith is a big part of my life. And I'm interested in your take on, uh, like free will versus fate.

As someone who strives to be the best version of themselves, w- where do you stand on that particular idea? You know, I think one of the, uh, if I understand it correctly, just free will, you're saying, you know, whatever happens happens, and then there's the other side that is I'm gonna do this because I have the faith for it. Is that what you mean? I mean, is our outcome in life predetermined, or do we have the ability to dictate the outcome? Okay, so you're talking about...

So from a, from a theological standpoint, that's called predestination by foreknowledge. Yes. But anyway, yeah. Uh, I think that one of... It's really interesting, that, that question, because y- you know, I've lived long enough where there were, there were enough people that didn't believe in me that caused me to question what I felt that was burning in me.

And now when I look down the line 30 years later, they were wrong. I was right. I can't say I wasted my time, but I'm so grateful for those challenges or if you even would say the resistance. Friction is good. Friction is how we drive our cars.

Friction is how we fly planes. It's friction. And, uh, so the idea of, of being a purpose-driven person, which I believe is im- important, and being purpose-driven, again, in my world, uh, that I live from, is not just acquiring things but it's impacting people. Uh, you know, I, uh, just among the other things I do, there's time... I just did a funeral, uh, uh, three weeks ago.

A guy said, "Hey, man, can you come to my, my mother's funeral?" Um, you know, nothing she said towards her last hours was, "I wish I had more stuff." Mm-hmm. It was always more time or I, I, "Oh, I wish I could've talked to this person." And you know, when you begin to think about that whole free will, I think that a lot of folks, uh, we...

That's a really great card to cash when we just don't wanna take responsibility. Uh, and, and I, you know, uh, where we just were kinda like, "You know what? I don't wanna have to, I, I don't wanna have to pay the price. I don't wanna have to attach, uh, uh..." Not, it's not even a belief system, but I just wanna do my own thing.

What w- what be, what will be will be. Um, I can't imagine, uh, living like that because it just, it's like pop all the hope balloons. Mm-hmm. Um, as a person of faith, uh, again, it's getting clarity on why you live. I, I live to help people win.

I, I li- I, I wanna help you win. I don't care if it's riding your bicycle, man. I'll be out there and put training wheels on that thing. We'll start with tricycle. Like, what's our goal?

Let's go. Um, because most people who live from the place of it being all about self-requirement, 50 years after your death no one will even remember you. That's powerful. That's brutal. That's frightening, and that's taking into consideration...

Again, I've s- you know, I got my doctorate in organizational leadership too. I study all this stuff. How do the mom-and-pop shops that started 50 years ago, they don't exist anymore, how'd they get gobbled up by big box companies? Well, there was something to be said, and, and, and more and more that's, that's uncommon because, uh, un- uncommon in the sense of something being, lasting 100 years. Uh, but if you go to Japan, they have 100-year business plan.

Oh, man. What's that all about? They think intergenerational. And so when we start putting into the mix of free will and other things, I, uh, I haven't heard a lot of that thinking s- s- uh, stay connected to generational wealth, uh, the long game. Uh, oftentimes it's, it's, it's been filled, the folks I've actually worked with in that, kinda along those lines, it's been filled with a lot of regret because they didn't count the cost fully.

Mm. Um, but when you step up, I say step, step out when you're living by faith, as a person living by faith, yeah, there's a part of disappointment. Yes, there's challenges that go through, but, you know, uh, that come, that, that happen. But ultimately, at the end of the day, you can say, "I did the best I could," versus, "I tried." Now try w- means something in horseshoes and grenades, but the best I could might mean we jump on top of that grenade.

I had a coach in high school. Uh, I'm a baseball, on the baseball team. I played in very high level baseball team, and we were struggling in the middle of the season, and a lot of it was just- We weren't getting along as a team, kind of playing for ourselves, and he said... This is a guy that also smoked a cigar on third base as he was coaching third base- ... so understand the time period that we're in. He goes, "You sons of bitches, you're not just playing for the name on the front of the jersey, you're playing for the name on the back."

And what he meant by that was every action you take out here isn't just a reflection of you or this team, it's a reflection of your parents- Mm-hmm ... it's a reflection of your siblings, of the grandparents that come watch you play, of the cousins that come watch you play. Like, you're playing for more than just yourself or this team. You're playing for everyone who supports you, who cares about you, 'cause if you act like a clown out here- Mm-hmm ... that reflects on them. And that has stuck with me. I don't think I had, I, I probably, you know, I was probably 16 at the time, I probably hadn't thought that deeply about it, but when he said that, it shut every single guy in that dugout up.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. We went on to go all the way. We lost a tough game in the state championship, but we went on to turn our season around, played amazing. It, it, that, I'm telling you, it, you could have heard a pin drop.

N- not a single guy in that team had probably ever heard something like that said that way and explained in that way. Hmm. And I'm paraphrasing a little bit, and there were way more curse words. Um, but- ... it was, it was like this moment where I, I, to what you said, like, when in America did we lose generational thinking? Hmm.

Like, when did we stop saying, "I'm not living for me or just me, I'm living for my kids, I'm living for my kids' kids so that I can instill lessons in them. I can set them up, you know, through, you know, whatever, however I feel I need to do that so that they then can be in a position to take care of their children and their children and on we go." Like, w- when did we lose that? I, I, I don't know the answer, but it feels like we have to a certain extent. I, I think the, the word that it comes to my mind is, and I, I s- I talk about this often, is responsibility, right?

There's this, this, there's this part where your coach was speaking to you all, and, um, you took responsibility and, I mean, and I s- you break that word up, response, ability. You have the a- have the ability to decide right there, I am empowered to make a decision right now for my future, for my friends, for my family, for my peo- all who I represent, and I'm gonna represent them well. And so when you look over, you know, just over generations in, in the past probably 50 years even, um, maybe a m- more, maybe 75 actually, there was a pivot from, uh, well, it's not out of my hands, you know? We've g- we've got, we've got shareholders to, to, to care for. We've got, we've got, I, I, I have to do this, and I, I've gotta make the cut.

I'm sorry because it's... And so that responsibility as if, um, you know, like some, uh, it gets lost in translation. Like, no one has the ability to make me mad. I choose to be mad. I have, I have a response ability.

My response is someone's ignorance doesn't mean I've gotta escalate it. I can say, "You know what?" Uh, and, and, and I'll say something simple. Couple, couple days ago, I'm in the supermarket, I'm waiting in line. I took the, took, there's a, a, you know how you take the ticket for you're waiting in line at the deli and, and there was a stack of numbers on, on the top and I took with a number from off the top and, and I'm standing there and the guy says, uh, "98."

And I was, had been standing by the, the, the deli guy says, "98." I've been s- standing next to a guy for probably five minutes just waiting. He says, "98," and the guy looks at his... I said, I said to him, "What number are you?" He goes, "I'm 99."

I go, "Oh, you were here before me." So I switch. He, switch with him, I take 99, and he's like, "Wow, that's very, that was very kind of you, like, thank, thank you." Like, he w- he was in shock. Dude, remember back in the day when that was just normal?

Like, who would even... Like, literally I'm like, w- what, what happened? Yeah. What happened to just, uh, not decency and consideration? When you're convinced that you actually have to fight for everything you get all the time, that no one's gonna ever take care of you, you've gotta take care of you, uh, to such a level where, you know, uh, w- you know, i- i- it, it, if, if we had the Titanic happen nowadays, there would be, there would, who knows who would be in the boat.

Mm-hmm. Because the fighting, the craziness would be going on because we think that our moments right here are the most amazing moments ever. I say this: You know how your moments will be measured 50 years from now when your grandchildren are talking about you and your kids' kids are talking? It like, it's like what, how, I remember what dad, man, this experience. I remember that guy Ryan, man, he had s- it was so powerful.

I had this moment in my business I thought it was all over, and he says something to me, it was amazing. Let's make our moments count. That's what's missing I think and today we're not ta- our responsibility is like I, I'm, I'm, I'm a, I'm a, I'm, I'm a, I'm, I live in victimhood and I live from a place of I'm not empowered. No, you are empowered. You have to choose.

Dr. Eric Peoples, my friends. It is such a pleasure. Oh my gosh. I could go for hours.

I'm stopping here only because I could talk for another two hours, man. Easy. This is amazing. This has been great. Um, uh, just it, it's giving me fodder.

We'll, we'll, we'll pr- do this again in six months or so, bring you back on the show. Hey, I'd love to. I, I just enjoy your viewpoint on the world. I think your approach, as I started with, is this, is this really wonderful and needed mix today of- Passion and strength mixed with humility and understanding, and I think we need more people like you out doing what you do. Where can people connect with you and go deeper down the rabbit hole in your work?

Well, you can find me, Eric Peoples Leadership Podcast, that's one of them, and I can't wait to have you on mine. It's gonna be awesome. Stay tuned. Yeah. I got a new assistant, yay.

Uh, coming, yes. And, uh, and also ericpeoples.co, that's my Instagram handle. But you can find me through podcast, Instagram, and, uh, stay tuned. I'm looking forward. Hey, back, it'll be lovely back in six months to tell you more about the book we're writing.

It's gonna be awesome, for sure. Done deal. Hey. Eric, thank you so much. I wish you nothing but the best, my friend.

Hey, my friend, honor to be with you. Thanks again. Let's go. Yeah. Make it look, make it look, make it look easy.

Hey, stand up. Thank you for listening to The Ryan Hanley Show. Be sure to subscribe and leave us a comment or review wherever you listen to podcasts. Game ain't a thing for me. I never switched up, no changing me.

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