Why Every Man Should Learn to Fight (It's Not What You Think) | Ed Latimore

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That's R-U-B-R-I-K dot com. That got put on steroids when social media came out and it gave everyone a voice. The voice that was the loudest and the most negative got amplified. So that got everyone thinking because we spend so much time online, that gave them something to attack, something to defend. One of my favorite books is The Epidemic of Absence, and in that book is about how our allergies develop.

And the author makes this point that as a country's GDP goes up, its incident of food allergies also goes up as the environment becomes cleaner because your, your immune system doesn't go, "You know, there's nothing else for me to do. I'ma chill out." It's like, "Nah, I've been fending off diseases for most of your existence. I gotta attack something else. Ooh, there's a protein like, like, like in a, in a, in a peanut or a shellfish.

Let me go after that." All right? I think psychologically the same way. We don't have any- anything to, to conquer, anything to put our, our... The human nature of conflict behind, so we, we invent it.

Then we find it o- in each other. What if your biggest breakthrough is waiting on the other side of your biggest breakdown? After getting fired from my third executive position, I realized God didn't create me to work for someone else. So I founded my own company, bootstrapped it, and sold it for seven figures in less than four years. This podcast is for unreasonable people seeking unreasonable results.

My name is Ryan Hanley, but most people just call me Hanley, and if you're ready to stop making excuses and start making moves, you're in the right place. This is the way. The good news about this being my show is I can do whatever the fuck I want. Um- Very cool, man. Very cool.

But that, that's the spirit, for sure. Yeah. It's, uh, the beauty of, of owning something. So all right, man. Well, well, dude, I'm, I'm so ex- excited to talk to you.

I was actually first exposed to your work when you were on the James Altucher Show, which I'm a big fan of. Oh yeah. Yeah, I love James, man. Yeah. He's a big chest man.

Yeah, I mean, that, that was a while ago. It was a few years ago, and then I started following you on Twitter, and I, I love the way that you approach different topics. And you know, I, I'd like to start... You know, there's tons of stuff in your backstory that I'd love to talk about 'cause there's some, some weird... There's some s- there's some similarities.

Like, just put white and rural, and, you know- ... you know, you're, you're Black and urban, you know what I mean? Yeah. But, like, the, but the shit that you talk about in terms of what impacted you, being surrounded by drugs and alcohol and, and bad influence, like that's, that's my story but in the middle of nowhere in a town of 900 people. You know what I mean? Um, so I, I think there's some wonderful things to talk about, but I, I wanna dig into this thing that you brought up in the green room, which is I, I believe, and I, and I think you agree, that this is one of, if not the topic of our day, which is why are we as a society, particularly the US, so incredibly polarized today?

Like, how do we come back together? Why is this topic so important to you p- specifically? Well, well, well for me, it's really important. And, and this is, it might not be obvious, but, but I, I'm Black, okay? So one of the things that, you know, I'm, I'm aware of is, you know, just, just being Black in the world.

And that's not gonna go where most people think it's going to go. I'm, I'm just gonna like you know... I don't, I don't wanna telegraph and make it seem like I'm about to say something, something crazy, but when, when you, when you, when you grow up as, as a minority, and the way we, I grew up kind of, you know, poor, disadvantaged, and everything, everyone expects you to think a certain way. They expect you to, to follow along, I think with, and now I'll use the terms, you know, w- with kind of the Democratic, liberal, liberal way of thinking. My experience is even when I was living in the, in that situation for most of my life, have naturally led me to think more like, uh, not in all things, but in, in certainly some key things like, like a conservative.

And I, and that, that always bugged me because I'm... I s- One, I shouldn't be expected to think a certain way because of who I am, because of my race, my... A- a- and two, why does my way of thinking, which is pretty much, you know... I don't wanna like u- I guess I gotta use the term, but, but it, it could be best summed up is self-reliance. You can do things, figure this out.

You know, no one's coming to save you type deal, okay? And it bugged me like why does that align with one side of the political aisle and the opposite to the other? And then I thought more about it and you know what I realized? This is, and this is a really new realization. It is not a liberal versus re- uh, progressive.

It is... Or blah. Not liberal versus conservative or progressive, whatever. And it's not, uh, Democratic versus Republican. It's like how can we weaken the United States?

I really believe this now. And, and I thought about this more and more, and then I uncovered some of the w- the, the interview of Yuri Bezmenov, or Bezmenov, I hope I'm saying that right. A KGB agent that defected back in the '80s. This is the '80s he's talking about this, and he says, you know, w- w- he's talking about the Soviet plan to destabilize. And he's like, "Look, we don't need to come in and like- Take over a country.

We don't need to do it violently. First, we're just gonna, we're gonna co-opt your institutions. It's gonna take us, like, 15, 20 years, but eventually we'll make sure everyone is, is very liberal. He doesn't say liberal, he says, like... S- I think he says sympathetic to, like, Marxist- Yeah ... and communist causes.

And then from there, it... Then they're gonna be teaching your, you know, your children, and they're gonna handle that, and then the next generation'll grow up and they're gonna think a certain way. And, and in this way of thinking, we don't... Everything is... Everyone's gonna be so confused that you could show them facts to their face, and they're gonna be like, "No, you're crazy.

That's not the, the, the truth." I think we are being... Now, now part of this is intentional, and even if it's not intentional, the other thing that we have is, is you have this incredible individualism that's part of the United States history, right? That got put on steroids when social media came out and it gave everyone a voice, and the voice that was the loudest and the most negative because of the way the algorithms work, those got amplified. And so that got everyone thinking because we spend so much of our time online.

You know, touch grass is, is a meme, but, like, that's... it's a real thing people need to do. That got everyone thinking the world is really that bad, and that started... And that gave them something to attack, something to defend, uh, make them feel like their values are under, under assault. And then the last thing to put a bow in it is one of my favorite books is The Epidemic of Absence, and in that book is about how our allergies develop, right? And, and the author makes this point that as a country's GDP goes up, its incident of food allergies also goes up as the environment becomes cleaner because your, your immune system doesn't go, "Oh, you know, there's nothing else for me to do.

I'ma chill out." It's like, "Nah, I've been fending off diseases for most of your existence. I gotta attack something else. Ooh, there's a protein, like, like, like in a, in a, in a peanut or a shellfish. Let me go after that."

All right? I think psychologically the same way. We don't have any- anything to, to conquer, anything to put our, our, the human nature of, of atta- o- o- of conflict behind, so we, we invent it, and we find it, and we find it i- in each other. I think you're 100% right, and I, and I think this plays in a lot of different ways. Something we've discussed on the show before, and I have some guests hopefully coming on in the next few months, is like what happened in the early '70s, right?

Like, what the heck happened to this country? Our testosterone, L testosterone, is down 59% since 1972. The average male carries 59% less testosterone in their body than 1972, right? Uh, we go off the gold standard and now inflation is at... You know, if you look at the inflation numbers, if you look at debt numbers, um, if you look at money in the system, if you look at basically every negative metric that you can possibly look at, since the early '70s we've seen these major changes, and it all aligns with when, um...

And, and guys, I'll have the link to, to the interview, uh, that Ed just referenced with, uh, Yuri, the, the KGB agent. Um, essentially, you know, the communists realized that they couldn't beat us. They couldn't beat us from a, from a, um, industrial standpoint. Mm. They couldn't beat us militarily, and they couldn't beat us from an innovation in science technology standpoint.

So the only thing that they could crack was our psychology. And, you know, I was introduced, um, a f- about a year ago to this idea, 'cause I've, 'cause I've struggled with, with, with the postmodern liberal mentality, right? Mm-hmm. Like, there's no receipts to back up any of the philosophies. There's zero receipts, right?

There's- Or there are, and they don't point to the conclusion you- they want you to point to- Yes ... and so it's like, ah, let's put that away. Yeah. I think I, I, I ado- had to adopt very early in my life, and, and seemingly you did as well, that, like, I had to live in reality. Yes. I couldn't, I couldn't live by, by theoretical ideas of what some utopian thing that could happen if, if, you know, only X and Y.

There is evil in the world. People do... Good people do bad things, right? Crazy things happen that you don't expect that have no reason, and essentially you have to build a life that defends against these things. Yeah.

And if you do not, if you're not building a life of positivity, and I think God plays a big role in this, right? Like, all of a sudden people start grasping for things, and you look at, like, like I don't like Elon Musk, so I'm going to draw swastikas on random Teslas in parking lots as a, like- What's this craziness? Like, and but that's, that is a holy crusade. Like, you know what I mean? These are secularists, but they're on a holy crusade.

I mean, they feel justified, like, like morally justified in taking some random human that they don't know who bought a Tesla, it's sitting in a parking lot, and keying a swastika into it. And like, okay, so stepping back from that, like we need things in our life, and, and you do talk about this, that are, that are hard. Like, we, we need to have things that are, that challenge us in a, in a positive way. So how do we start to crack that conversation? I, I, I really struggle with this because I don't think...

I, I in no way think my philosophy on life is right. I make mistakes all the time, right? But I do try to pursue and, and completely open to ideas that could point me in a better direction, right? Yeah. And I just...

But there's so many people you run into who are just, like, limping through life. They're just, like, dragging themselves, and they believe anything they see on TV, and they, they don't wanna go deeper than surface level on anything. And- I guess part of the reason of doing this show is trying to expose people who are interested or open to the idea, to new ideas. Like, how do we start to crack that and help people maybe come back to this idea of living in reality? Like, like working their life- You know, one of the things that I always tell guys when they are having trouble, um, you know, losing weight, being antisocial, finding a date, whatever, you know, it, it always comes back to a, a retreat from reality Hiring isn't just about finding someone willing to take the job.

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Hiring? Do it the right way with Indeed. Like you said. And they're-- it's so easy to retreat from reality. Like, like if I wanted to, I could-- the, the Netflix is incredible, and that's just Netflix.

That's just the commercial one. I popped up TikTok last night, and I, I swiped over on the For You page. I didn't even notice it existed. And, and before I knew it, I had wasted fifteen minutes watching some kid play Mortal Kombat II, and I was like, "Whoa, hold up. How is this a thing?"

Um, and that's just one example. You know, you got YouTube. My, my point is that there, there's lots of-- there, there are so many ways to numb yourself and just be a passive consumer and do everything you can to have just enough to passively consume. Because humans, like every other organism in this universe, will seek the most energy-efficient path. In other words, we, we do things the easiest way possible, assuming that, you know, w-we do what we can to survive, but we, we try to do that the easiest way possible.

The way out of that is to seek out hardship intentionally. Now, I'm not the dude that's gonna tell you to go take cold showers. I, you know-- I get where the movement comes from, and that's certainly a step in the right direction, but it's not really practical. Yeah. Uh, I tell guys, "Go, go learn how to fight.

Go learn. Go, go get into a, a, a gym and train for six months to twelve, six to twelve months to take a fight." In that six to twelve months, if you commit yourself to that goal, a few things are going to happen that can't happen any other way. Uh, one, the obvious, you're gonna get in incredible physical shape. Whatever your issue was, losing weight, being healthy, you're probably gonna fix it.

And on top of that, because of the opportunity cost of going to the gym, you're not gonna be sitting around wasting your, your time. I, I, I think one of the reasons-- well, one of the major reasons I got sober and one of the major reasons why I didn't make any really big mistakes when I was in the throes of alcoholism is because I had this thing I was focused on, which was my training. So I would never let myself get too crazy, and I could put the brakes on when I-- sometimes, not all the time, obviously. But, but it never got as bad as I, I saw it be for some people. When you go train for a fight, you take care of that health thing.

You end up, because of the structure of a fight gym, you end up making real friends. A lot of guys talk about not having friends. There, there's all types of surveys. I wrote an article about this, about how, uh, over the age of twenty-three, n- people, people really don't make new friends, especially men at least. Uh, women are a, a bit better at this, actually a lot better at this, but men espe- are, are really bad.

If you train in the gym for a year, it will be impossible to not have friends. You'll either be-- you'll be kicked out if you're, if you're, if you're not able to, to work with people. I have never had a problem making friends, and I realize that it's not because there's something special about me. It's like, okay, I graduated high school. I had this little break, and then I got into fighting when I was twenty-two.

Uh, and then fighting introduced me to a bunch of other people, and then I enlisted in the military. That introduced me to a bunch of new people. So I'm just k-- and now it's like a r- a self-referring system. I, I meet people all the time who get recommended to hang out, have coffee, stuff like that. But there's that aspect, living in reality again.

You make friends. Next part. Look, forget the political correctness, man. Let's be real here. If you can take care of yourself and you're strong and you are together, you're going to attract women into your life.

And, and, you know, whether they're, they're, they're suitable for long-term dating or not, that's a different problem. But that's a problem a lot of guys don't even get to solve because they haven't solved the first one, which is j- you know, just getting a ticket to the dance. You know, we'll worry about if she's a good dancer later. You gotta get invited to the dance first. So for me, uh, not just physical activity, though physical activity does matter.

Not saying you-- you know, if you gotta pick between going to a fight gym and just going to your twenty-four hour fitness, please go to twenty-four hour fitness and don't be a fat ass. But, like, if you got the option to get to any type of fight gym, I, I'm partial to boxing because that's what I came up in, but BJJ works. Judo works. Well, anything works that forces you to face fear, compete with another guy in a social environment. I think people forget how-- or don't forget, they just don't know how ... social a, a, uh, fight club is, but it's not social like we're sitting around playing video games, shooting the shit.

We're, we're talking shop, you know? And, and that's the other thing that, that's kind of crucial to networking that no one talks about. They go, "How do we network?" The first part of networking is, like, being good enough at something. It ain't gotta be, like, world-changing, but you gotta be good enough at something where people are like, "Oh, let me talk to this guy, he seems interesting," or, "He has something to teach me, some offering," then your social skills come into play, and you, you build off of that.

But that, that one right there, and if you look at, uh, at everything in our society right now, it is pulling people away from that physical activity. Not even fighting, but that physical life, that living outside, that interacting with others, that's a big deal, and we're getting further and further away from it. And the s- and the numbers are starting to show in, in, um, the, the, I guess, metrics of social development and social satisfaction, especially amongst men. The stat that still blows my mind, that 27% of men under the age of 30 are virgins. And we're talking, like, over 18s.

We're not, not counting, like, you know, grouping in, like, eight-year-olds and shit. We're talking about guys that, like, should be in their prime trying to date and meet women. Well, mo- one in four, and that's crazy. The idea of being a virgin at 30 is so foreign to me. I think- Yeah, the...

Dude, you got kids. I mean I can't even, I can't even, I can't even wrap my head around that. I mean, like, you know, so when this idea of toxic masculinity came out, right? I found it abhorrent. I just...

I was like, everything about my life has been, has been cultivating masculinity, right? Strength. Like, if someone breaks in my front door, I may not win, but I'm gonna fuck the guy, I'm, I'm gonna cause some damage. Right. You know what I mean?

You, you, you might rob me, but you gonna know that, you know- Yeah, yeah. I'm a- ... the police are gonna be able to, when they, when they find you, they gonna know that you was just in something. You gonna have to explain the marks, you know? Yes. Yeah, exactly.

Like, I, I'm, like, I, I say to people all the time, they're like, "Why?" You know, so I'm a gun owner, and, you know, I got bu- especially in New York- That was about to say, in New York, yeah. Yeah, a lot of people, a lot of pe- you know, there's a lot of people that are like, "Oh, I can't believe you have guns in the house," and I'm like, "Look, if someone decides at 2:00 AM that they're gonna come in my house, I, I'm gonna make sure that they regret that decision." Again, I have no idea if fate is gonna have me win that altercation, but I'm gonna make sure they regret that decision. That is my obligation as a man, is to defend my home, my people, right?

That's my obligation. And, like, it has been taught and, and men have been so just, like, they've just been so docile. Like, they, like, everything's about, oh, your feelings and vulnera- and look, like, like, I'm not against, you know, being able to express and understanding that you have layers beyond just the surface- Right ... and all that stuff. That's very, very important. I, I...

Look, best advice I ever got in my entire life was, uh, from a mentor about seven years ago, and I was going through some stuff, and he said, "Look, go get a counselor, meet with that person every other week for the rest of your life, and just consider it a life expense." Like, it just became an expense that you pay, like your Netflix bill or your heat or your mortgage. And that is some of the best advice I ever got, 'cause I get to talk to this person, explain things, say, "I don't know why I react this way," whatever. That's good. But we gotta get back to understanding what our role is in society.

Right. And our role- Yeah. Like, I was talking to my, my sister is, um, a wonderful human being, but she's unfortunately been indoctrinated into postmodern liberalism. Like, I said to her, you know, she was, she's, she questions a lot of my beliefs, right? And I skew conservative, obviously.

And, and not even conservative. I don't even like that term. Like- Yeah ... yeah, like living- I w- we'll, we'll dig back into that because- Yeah, like, I, I like to live... Like, again, my, my, the way I like to frame it is I like to live in reality, right? And I'm like, men are replaceable.

God created us in a way that we're replaceable, right? If there's people invading, we all go out and get the crap kicked out of us and killed, and a few of us come back so that the women can repopulate the community, and the community continues. Like, we need the women to be safe, 'cause they're the ones that create the little humans that allow us to keep going as a, as a species. And the men, you know, they can get beat up and they can get killed and, and that's, that's what we're for. We're the cannon fodder.

And... But if you're sitting in your basement and you're 300 pounds, and your contribution to society is your, your level in some game, I'm not against video game whatever. If that's what you're into, it's great. But, like, like you said, you have to be fit. You have to have a ph- a personal philosophy on life.

Acquire skills. You don't even have to be the best, you just have to be committed to acquiring them. And, like, I, the idea that this is somehow toxic or foreign or antiquated thought process, I, I can't even wrap my head around. Like, open your eyes for 10 seconds and look what's happening in the world. Not much has changed other than the fact that shit just happens faster.

Yeah, and it, it happens faster- Pretty much exactly the same ... and we're more aware of it. Yeah, yeah. We didn't have this, the, the way things come, it's crazy. Yeah. But, like, that phrase toxic masculinity, you know, I've, I've gone back and forth on this because, because, uh, like I said, my whole thought process is grooted, r- rooted in reality and truth.

If, if, if as I examine something, uh, if some of my beliefs skew towards a liberal idea, it's only, but it's not because it's a liberal idea, it's only because they happen to get that one right. If it, if it skews towards a conservative, they happen to, to get that one right. Am I still here? Sorry about that. Uh, my whole, I was, uh, I gotta, uh, I can't see you at all.

I'm sorry about that. You can edit this- No, you're good ... I'm, I'm assuming. Okay. Great.

Uh, here I am. I'm back. All right. Um, but, um- Yeah. If, if, if my ideas skew one side or the other, it's only because as I sat and thought about the idea, the, and, and really analyzed it, that's where I had landed.

And I can give you examples of that. But on the toxic masculinity thing, that was one of those things. I'm like, okay, well, they're not saying... At first my brain was like, you know, this is kinda like that word trick they use with, with immigration. They're like, "No, we're not against immigration.

We think illegal immigration is a big deal," and you gotta use the adjective. So I'm, I'm sitting here going, okay. For, in, in this case we're saying toxic masculinity. Okay, so maybe they're saying, you know, the toxic si- and then, and then I had to stop myself. But they're not saying toxic humans, you know, or, or, or poor qualities as masculinity and something inherent about masculinity, there's a toxic expression of it.

I don't like that because I am, I'm positive. I, I would bet at the very least no positive masc- positively masculine male came up with this toxic masculinity. It was either a woman or it was, uh, a wolf in sheep's clothing as I like to call them. It's a s- it's a socialist construct. Toxic masculinity is 100% a socialist construct.

Yeah. It, it, it's, it's absolutely insane because it w- once you, once you hijack the conversation in that way, then y- y- you don't leave... Let's put it like this. I would, I would probably not give the term as much flack as I do if they had just as much of a concerted effort to discuss positive masculinity, but that's not a thing. And so it's like what are we, we're gonna highlight all these negative features of guys and realize, and, and, and in doing so, not realize, that a lot of what you're determining is toxic is just how you feel about it.

It's not inherently toxic, it's how you feel about it. It's like that old joke, right? Uh, what's the difference between, uh, uh, a bitch and a s- a slut and a bitch, right? That's like the joke. A slut, a slut bangs everyone at the party, a bitch bangs everyone at the party but you.

It's like, it's, it's, it's a joke, right? But the idea, the joke is that, okay, you're using your feelings to determine what the words mean, and okay, people do that all the time, but when they receive, when, when they, when they make it into cultural discourse to the level that they do, then you start, then you change everything. You get guys afraid to be... I don't wanna say afraid, but what we do see is that we got a lot of guys who are affected. We're behind.

I mean, in every m- in every metric of life, you know, we are behind women significantly. And look, I don't believe parity is ever possible, but for reference, when, when women were behind men in rates of graduation and salary and things like that in the '70s, uh, the difference from parity in their dir- in, in our direction or their direction, however you wanna look at it, is much smaller than the difference in parity now in the other way, that we're further behind than we were. Fur- we're just further behind. But no one wants to address that because, you know, 86 cent to the dollar, and that keeps getting par- parrotted and parrotted and parrotted that, that now you can't even discuss what's really going on because you have bought into an old idea how reality was, and you haven't adapted, you haven't updated, because it's not in your interest to update it, you know. So, so, so like, yeah, uh, when you ask me a thing that gets me passionate, you know, uh, the, the hot topic, this is another one too because, because there were a lot of things I didn't have an opinion about.

That's how I, I win a lot of the... or how I keep my sanity. I just don't have opinions on these things. I don't think about them. Like, like the trans issue, ah, right? It wasn't really a thing for me to think about, 'cause whatever, right?

And then I had a son, so now I gotta think about a bunch of stuff. I gotta think about a bunch of stuff and make sure, and, and have very clear lines of like, okay, here's what's not going to happen, and if that means I gotta lose a friend or two... Now fortunately I don't, I don't think it'll come to that, but, but that's like the idea 'cause, 'cause relationships are very important to me. But they're not more important than, than making sure that my, my offspring can live without me as a functional human being. That's, that's how I define kinda raising your kid, that like eventually they're able to continue without you, and, and they'll miss you but, but you know, you don't, you don't leave too soon and you make sure they're, they're equipped to deal with life.

Yeah. My issue with equality, so, so, so this idea of toxic empathy, right? I, uh, I was int- this is a concept I was also introduced to about a year ago. Again, searching through like where, how does someone take post-modern liberal beliefs and, and actually believe that this is, this is the way the world should work? 'Cause I, I, I literally, I c- I can't wrap my head around it. Like I, again, I don't...

There's no receipts for the methodology that shows positive progress in any society, right? Like, like we're literally, if you go back and you find out where do these ideas come from, they all come out of, you know, originally, originally from Marx and then they've been mutated and manipulated and, and these ideas were applied to Russia and the Soviet Union. Hasn't worked. Fell apart, right? Cuba fell apart.

Venezuela fell apart. Like, look at, look at North K- uh, Korea versus South Korea. I mean, there's just example after example after example of when you, uh, when you put equality, uh, or, uh, um- Equality of outcome versus equality of process ... equality of equity versus equality of opportunity. Yeah. Right?

When you, when you mis- when you conflate those two things, your society falls apart. Because when you have driven, hardworking people... Like, like take Elon Musk, right? Not a perfect human. I have to lead with that preference.

However, the reason I think so many people dislike him is not because of anything he's said or done. They're fucking jealous of this guy. They're jealous that a human being has h- is willing to sleep on a cot- In his workplace, in order to do things that no other human has been able to do, figure out, uh, EVs and make them, uh, uh, and make them, um, more reliable throughout the cycle. At scale, affordable, yeah. Right, yeah, scale.

SpaceX, SolarCity. He's got a whole dri- digging company that no one talks about to, to reduce traffic and congestion in, in major cities. Like, thing after thing after thing. He comes in and he finds all this waste, fraud, and abuse inside of the sci- uh, inside of our government through DOGE, right? So when I look at it, when I think about this idea of where, why would you say everyone needs to be equal versus, which I would belie- I would believe if everyone could be equal, I'm all for it.

Don't get me wrong. But what pisses me off- Mm-hmm ... about that philosophy is, is there's the only way to get there is to create equality of opportunity, and that's... Nobody on the post-modern liberal side talks about opportunity, right? Yeah. Like, there are communities, both Black communities and white communities, where I live that nobody gives a shit about.

Nobody, right? We wanna prop everyone up. We wanna send them free money and free food and all this stuff, which, which if that helps them get out of the situation they're in, I am all for that. I'll donate as much as anybody. I'll contribute.

I'm all for that stuff. But behind that, nobody is helping them actually get out. No one's introducing sports or fitness or education or e- entrepreneurial programs or mentorship pro- ... There's none of that shit. So it's like, okay, what you wanna do is just hand people shit for free and, but keep them in the little box that they're in.

That's what I hear when I hear that philosophy- Mm-hmm ... and that's what pisses me off about it because everyone, every American should have the ability to get themselves out of wherever they start. Yes. 'Cause we're not all gonna start the same, but that's the shit that pisses me off. And like, and to me, when I look at the individuals who are spouting this, they're usually coastal, well-educated elites, right? So they're already in a place where they can spout this philosophy out. Right.

They're not actually living it. And o- or it's someone in my mind who simply doesn't, who is jealous of the outcome but unwilling to put the work in to get there, right? Like- Yeah. And on top of that, there's also the, the, the, the kind of PR side of it. It, it, it looks good to your group of people that are, you know, like you said, well-educated elite, or like the, the group think.

You know, back what I was saying about how a lot of my thoughts took me in a different direction, it's amazing how there's this assumption that, that because I'm Black, I'm supposed to think and feel a certain way, which is the exact opposite of diversity in the purest sense of the word. And so it's champion- it's championing this surface-level diversity and not diversity of thought. As long as, you know, you can, you can be different, just don't be different in the way we, you know, in a way that, that pits you against our ideas and our beliefs. And, and I, I've always found that fascinating, um, just how far people will go to look the way they think they should look. Yeah.

Or what to, to have the ideas that they think they should have and to fit in. Because I believe that that is a lot of it, too. I was just having a discussion with someone the other day about how, um... They, they were pulling up the, um, the county-by-county win map for elections. And look, I have no idea.

I, I go back and forth on it all the time about the, the validity of the, the 2020 election. What I won't do is call anyone who thinks it was rigged crazy because our hist- our, our country has a long history of, of, of manipulating outcomes. And it, it's, it's nuts. Like, someone made a post on the, on Twitter a few weeks ago like, "The CIA is wild," because something will happen. You'll say it a cons- a conspiracy theory, and, and everyone will be like, "Yeah, you're crazy.

Why would you think that?" And a few years later, the CIA comes out and goes, "Yeah, we did that shit." And then it just keeps going. But, but pulling up that, b- b- back to that demographic map kinda county by county, I was making a point, and I had to show my math. I was like, well, for a...

Thank goodness for, like, the Electoral College, because all a candidate would have to do is win, like, the 10 major cities, and not by a, not by a small mar- not by a major margin to secure the presidency. Because people in, in the, what, LA, San Fran, or the whole Bay Area, um, the, the Northeast Corridor, all the big cities, all the 10 biggest cities in Southern Texas, you, you end up with people who think the same by region. And that is so interesting to me because you... If we were looking at a true difference of, like, thoughts and everything like that, you, you wouldn't expect to see it so uniformly represented. Every, every now and then you get a place that, like, turns.

You know, like, I think Miami, Miami has a, a Republican mayor for, and San Diego as well. But for the most part, this is a fairly consistent pattern. To keep, to keep appearances up and to fit in, you adopt the beliefs of those around you. So what may have started as a bad idea, only because no one else was willing to go, "Yo, that's a really bad idea. Let's, let's pull the reins back on that," it continues sticking around.

I used to watch, um, John Oliver back before I realized he was, like, crazy political, 'cause I don't watch anything that's politically charged no matter how I feel. Yeah. And, uh, my wife had pulled up a clip of his Where he was talking about the, um, I can't remember the exact name of the bill in Florida, but it was the one that was called Don't Say Gay bill. That's what they would call him. And as he was breaking it down, I'm sitting there going, "How could you be for this though?"

Like, like, like, because the idea is that you're discuss- it, the bill will f- forbid the ability to discuss sex in classrooms. I thought it was all over school. Like, I thought it was everyone in school, right? Turns out it was just for people, like, in the third grade and below. Yeah.

And I said, "That's, that's nuts. Why would you, like, lad bastard?" So I'm sitting here looking at him like lad bastard. I'm trying to find the logic behind it. And, and even if he did have some points, my issue is to not be willing to consider, like, why the other side thinks this way.

And w- when people lose the ability to do that, they're, they're, they're absolutely dumbfounded. It's amazing how many people in 2016 couldn't believe Trump won. And I, and I'm just sitting here on Twitter, you know, the months before going, "I don't think you guys realize how most of the world thinks because you are insulated." I'm sitting on Twitter with a, you know, well, well over 100,000 followers going, "Ah," and I see different things, I'm like, "Ah, I don't think..." And on the flip side, when 2020 was coming along, I thought way before anyone else, and was quite vocal about it, I thought Biden was gonna win.

Not 'cause he was the better candidate, but I thought people, I, I thought the, the, um, the powder keg was ripe and people were really out in droves. And this time they're like, this time it was super clear. I mean, they... But it's amazing how not clear it is to people who are like... Like, if you can't admit that your strategy, that, that you're on the losing side, then you can't even come up with a strategy to f- rectify that.

And we're talking about, like, a political campaign, but that idea applies to how we interact with everyone else. If you can't u- if you can't understand why someone might have a problem with Bud Light endorsing a, a, uh, a, a trans person whose primary audience is children somehow anyway, uh, then you are never gonna be able to... Like, we, we can't fix this. Like, we, we can't. And that's where my, where I lose hope a lot of times is that to me, the, the answer for this part is painfully obvious.

Like, without getting into any type of restrictions on our freedoms, but the answer is painfully obvious. We need to put as much time into educating young people on, as much time as we put into, like, teaching them, you know, math and history and science, all that stuff that's important, we also need to put a lot of time into teaching them how to think and have conversations and interact with the other person, and really make that not just an afterthought, you know, as a thing you only bring up when it's a problem and disrupts the learning experience. But it needs to be the learning experience. Like, how we, how we talk to the other side. Because if you can do that, right, I think a lot of bad ideas get weeded out.

But right now, what we have is, is a, is a climate that lets bad ideas just fester and, and then, and grow, and there's no way to beat them. Because if you attack them, you make them larger by the, by the, uh, sh- what the hell is her name? Streisand effect. Yeah. And if you ignore them then they blindside you out of nowhere at a PTA conference or something like that.

Uh, so you have to figure out... And, and there's no, there, there's no way to attack the idea. We, we, we gotta hope that smart people, and fortunately there are enough smart people and enough organizations, I'm part of one, Builders, that are, like, going, "Hey, we need to start talking to the next generation." You can't really do anything about old. I mean, some of them will come around.

But, but all the... But if you, if you teach kids how to, like, interact and learn from one another and be curious and then challenge ideas and not be so damn butthurt when they're bad ideas, or just show them how ideas work. I mean, it's, that's the only way out. That, that's how I feel. I mean, I wish there was a- No I'm, I'm with you, dude.

And, and as far as the parenting thing goes, and, and, and this is, I'm gonna take a direct shot at everyone who's listening who's a parent who abdicates the responsibility to be a fucking parent. Like, you need to talk to your children. You need to interact with them. You need to discuss, what are you doing at work? Why are you making the decisions?

Like, I discuss everything with my children. Like, like, you know, and they, and I know they get sick of it sometimes, and I can tell when they're zoning me out, and their freaking kids are 11 and nine. But we have, like, deep discussions about stuff, and I ask them questions, and how do you feel about this, and how would you handle this? And, you know, right now sports are big in their life, 'cause again, they're nine and 11. So, like, I put a lot of things in context of sports.

And, you know, but it, if we're not, if we're not engaging with our kids, if we just shove them off on the coach at the sporting event and go sit in a chair with, staring at our phone, and every time they look over to see if you're watching your face is buried in a phone, guess what they think, right? Right. They think you don't give a shit. They stop listening. You know what I mean?

They start acting out. They, they're, now their ears are open to anyone who will talk to them, because you're not talking to them. You're not engaging with them. So now you're opening the door to crazy assholes who may have an agenda shoving shit in your kids' brains that you don't agree with. But hey, you advocated that responsibility by checking out and, and spending more time with your phone than you do with your kids.

And- There's a, there's a great, um, in, in that organization I was talking about, there's a guy, Tony McAleer, and Tony's a former neo-Nazi who, who left that life behind and now really devotes his life to making people curious and ask questions so bad ideas don't continue and we can decrease polarization. And he was telling a story in one of our calls about he used to do gang, uh, intervention stuff too. And he was saying a mother contacted him and said that her son has been, she found that her son was on, um, w- I, I can't remember one of the big white supremacy forums. But she's like, "We don't raise him like that. We don't bring that around.

This stuff, we don't know how it came in. We don't know how he got to it. We just need some help." And he was talking to her, and what he discovered though is that those people on that forum treated her son better than any of the other kids at school. And so that opened up this gate of like, "Oh, I got a group I can belong to."

This is like how gang, how gangs work in general. It's like, okay, you got this broken situation. Nobody, you know, clearly your father don't give a shit about you. Your parents aren't around. Come to us.

We'll take care of you. All you gotta do is sell your soul basically, and possibly your life. And, and understand, l- like, like you just make that connection on a broader level. Like yeah, if you're not involved in, with your children's life, that triggers a cascade effect. I'm writing a speech right now about this whole idea of personal leadership, and it's, and it's like the butterfly effect that starts with what you do, with what you do, and then how that extends to the rest of your community.

If you're not involved in your children's life, you're teaching them how to... Not only are you teaching them how to interact with people, but you're not teaching them how to interact with people, and then they're gonna end up, you know, pissing somebody off, or they're bullying or teasing some kids at school. And you get enough weak-minded kids who've done that because their parents have not been present, then you end up creating another kid who's, who's going underground to these forums, who's joining gangs, things like that, because he feels like, oh, they get him. They understand him. Now, they have nefarious, outright hostile purposes for your child, but it was your job, you know?

And you, you left it, you left it up to chance hoping it w- it would happen, and it did. Yeah. And, and this extends to, to every aspect of our life. Like, you know, if you're normally listening to this show and you like the entrepreneurial business shit, guys, like, like what we're talking about is not relegated to our personal lives or our relationship with our children or our spouse. It, this goes for everything.

You know, one of the, one of the biggest changes, so, so I had, I had a lot of things going on in my life back in like 2016, 2017. And you know, I was traveling too much, and I w- my kids were young, and I wasn't spending time with them, and I, I wasn't connecting with my wife. And I, you know, I, I was drinking too much, and be- you're out at conferences, and, you know, you're doing all this different stuff, and thank God I avoided most of the major mistakes. I never cheated and didn't do any of that. But, but in terms of relationally to my business, I became very selfish.

I became very self-oriented. It was about my persona, my brand. Um, yeah, it wasn't... Okay. And this idea of, of in- of intentionality, right?

Yeah. Like, it literally changed the course of my life. And I have to give credit, and I've talked about him 1,000 times in this show, uh, Jordan Peterson for this, 'cause I read, um, uh, 10 Rules For Life. And, and that book was like a, a, a starting point. I'm not gonna say it's the be all, end all of, of all books on, on personal responsibility and intentionality, but, but it, it started this, me down this path.

And I s- I started saying to myself, like if you can just be intentional with your actions, it doesn't mean every decision you make, every action you make is the right decision. That's, you have to give yourself grace for that. And that's where, you know, I'm, I'm God-fearing guy. I'm a Christian. Uh, you know, that's where like, you know, a relationship with God can really help in giving yourself grace and love and peace.

But be intentional. Either the world, either you dictate to the world or the world dictates to you. I mean, that's- Yep ... that's, that's-- My football coach, you know, so I played football in high school. Loved football. I ended up getting injured or I probably would've played in college.

I ended up playing baseball in college. But, um, like my football coach used to always say, "He dictates to you or you dictate to him, and it's your decision." That, that's it, right? I, I'm assuming the same thing is true with boxing, right? I- Absolutely.

Right? I was just talking about that this morning. Yep. Yeah, yeah. Like, you know, I, I would love, you know, for you to maybe break this down and, and show how this has worked in your life.

And particularly, you know, I'm such a huge advocate for sports, uh, especially sports with contact because you learn who you are, right? When you, when you have to, you know, when, when, you know, I never boxed. Uh, I do boxing for fitness, but I've never box boxed. Um, when you, when you, when you try to tackle someone, you know, so I was a middle linebacker, and you, you come around a corner and you square up with that running back, either you're tackling him or he's mowing you down. And sometime, and it goes both ways.

You can, you can be at the top of your game and some guy just catches you, and now you're pulling your dick up out of the dirt- ... and you gotta brush yourself off, and it's the next play. And that guy's walking back to the huddle with a big ass smile on his face 'cause he just mowed you down, and now you gotta go do it again. And y- you learn about yourself in these moments. Like, am I a person who is willing to take that hit and get back up and go do... 'Cause he may do that shit to me again, and I gotta go do it 'cause this is my job. This is why I'm here.

Yep. And, and that like, it is so important for us to test ourselves, I guess. And, and I get so concerned with safe environments. Like, like this idea of safe, safe. Like, obviously I don't, I'm not an advocate for viol- like violence- ... in a random negative way.

But like, I, our world is not safe, so why do we create these incredibly safe, these, these, these vanilla, whitewashed fucking environments for our kids, and then we put them out in the world and we wonder why they can't handle adversity? You sh- man, Dr. Jon Haidt writes about this in The Coddling of the American Mind, uh, where he's talking about, like, the overparenting and the safe i- issues. And what it does is it creates, yeah, they, it, it creates children who are not- Who don't realize they won't break, you know? And so every little thing is- I'm here on a job site with Tim, who owns his own electrical contracting business.

Three employees and two work trucks. Tim traded up to GEICO Commercial Auto Insurance. We're positively here where he needs us most. They sure are. With step-by-step help on all his insurance needs, all for shockingly low rates.

Shockingly low, huh? It's just a little bit of electrician humor. Do you get it? I got it. You know, it feels like we have a real connection.

All right, I'll stop. Get a commercial auto insurance quote today at geico.com and see how much you could save. Get more with GEICO. Like a hyper, it triggers a hyper response because it, it, it's, it's not, um, they haven't tested themselves. It- And it's, you know, the lack of, lack of context, which right there is that.

Or like, you know, one, one example I like to give that is completely, uh, outside of the physical realm, you know, you're 44, I'm 40. When we were growing up, if we wanted to talk to a girl, we had to like go, we had to get, ask for her phone number, okay? And, and sometimes that went well. Sometimes you got clowned and everybody else knew. And then if it went well, then you had to call.

And when you called, you probably had to talk to her father or her mother first. And then they got passed to on the phone, and then they might have been listening on the phone too. It could've been crazy. Um, but all of that is, like that's a resilience rejection. That's a resilience building activity where you face the possibility of rejection or embarrassment in multiple instances, and it doesn't stop when you get older.

The only difference is now you don't have to deal with... It actually gets harder because even though you don't have to deal with parents, now you gotta like go approach her directly under no pretense a lot of times. So how contrast that to today. You just slide in somebody's DM. You don't have to ever, you don't even have to ask them for their phone number.

You just send a message. You don't have to do any of this hard stuff that forces you to face the possibility of being outright rejected and, and getting your feelings hurt a little bit. And, and I think that stuff is, is formative. It's not quite a, a, a, a rite of passage. But in many ways, um, it, it triggers the same type of, or a similar type of, uh, okay, this did not kill me.

I'm gonna be all right. You know, you get your heart broken. I used to say growing up, you know, if you're gonna get your heart broken, you should get it broken when you're young because you might need to nurse those wounds and figure things out, and it's better to do it when you ain't gotta go to work the next day or you got, you know, people to feed, stuff like that. Um, if you don't, if you don't experience these, these things growing up, it, it kills you when it happens. Or even younger, you know, we, we let him get his skin knees.

We were so excited he got his first skinned knee. My, 'cause my kid's a lot, not a lot younger. He got a lot younger. He's two and a half. He's running around walking.

And, and you know, you got the conflict, and I say this in the most positive terms, conflict with the mother, but she wants to keep him safe. And I'm like, "Nah, get out here soon. Go skin your knees and climb up the, climb up the, the thing. We'll, we'll figure it out. Now, I'm not gonna let you do something that's gonna get you killed."

And then that's how I weigh everything. Okay, will this kill him? Yes or no? If no, all right. All right.

Will he be seriously injured if it goes poorly? If no, all right, continue. Um, and then, and then is someone else gonna get hurt? If no, all right, this is great. And, and it's amazing when you, when you have that check now, it's like, all right, you know?

Because, 'cause it's not that I want him to get hurt, but I know that he needs to like get hurt and needs to- Yeah ... experience this. That's why like, like I'm not, I'm probably not gonna push my son to compete because competition for boxing, especially when you get past the local level is, I mean, it's like all sports. It's a lifestyle. But unlike other sports, you know, the goal is to hurt the other person. It's n- there's no penalties f- for, for hands to the face or unnecessary roughness.

Like this is a real game or a real, real thing. But he will absolutely be in the boxing gym and will learn how to fight and learn how to train, not just for the physical stuff, right? Uh, not just to, to learn what it takes to, to, to hit, to be hit and all that, right? But also, you know, to feel that pressure because, 'cause a boxing ring is an inch, it's a lonely place. It, it, and it's the worst kind of lonely.

Normally when we think about lonely, you're by yourself. There ain't nobody around. But no, you're out there by yourself in the ring, but everyone else is looking at you, right? Buddy of mine said it best. He's like, "You know why boxing is the best sport?

Because if you're at a, if you're at a basketball game and a fight breaks out in the stands, everyone looks at the fight and stops looking at the game." It's like that. It's like that with, so that's what fighting is. Everyone's attention's on you, so you learn how to deal with that, and you learn how to deal with... Uh, and it's also the closest I can get him to my life growing up without him having to live my life growing up because the boxing gym is like...

You ever, you ever see John Wick and, uh, and the, they got the concept of The Continental? No, no business in the, no business at The Continental, right? Uh, can't kill nobody, nothing like that. The boxing gym's kinda like that. You can get the, you know, drug dealers, the cops, everything all in the same place, working out, training.

And nobody, as long as you don't do any business on the premises, nobody's doing anybody, you know? Now, I mean, obviously if he kills somebody and they find out you're there. But like for the most part, it's, it's an environment where you get to, you get to touch the, the, the street but not be in the street, and that's, I need him to see that as well because we... Like, like bro, I live in the suburbs. I sometimes I forget to lock my door at night.

That's not a good thing. That makes me nervous, but sometimes I forget. But I, but like, you know, if somebody came in here, you know, that, that, that's a different thing. But like it's not a worry like when I live in the middle of the city, and, and we know our neighbors, and it's friendly, and I ain't gotta worry about him getting his ass kicked on the way somewhere when he grows up, stuff like that. Uh, point is it's very different than how I ...

And so I, but I, but a- and how I grew up did build some lessons, but at what cost? And so I gotta figure out how to give him those lessons without the cost. Dude, it, it's that I, I struggle with the same thing, you know? Like I remember walking around my town at 12 years old, and, and I was blessed in that I had two parents that loved me, right? So I, I consider that, that's a blessing.

That's the biggest blessing. Right? Uh, they were divorced, but thankfully lived in the same town, different sides, but you know, whatever. But and it's a tiny little town. I mean, there was just 900 people in my town, so it's not like, you know, different sides was like a five-minute walk.

Um, but my, my point is like every male role model in my life was either a drug addict, a criminal, or an alcoholic, right? And I remember walking around my shitty little town with one stoplight, two gas stations. That was it, right? We're, we're 30 minutes from the closest city. I just remember looking around being like, "I gotta get the fuck out of here."

Like, I'm sick of fighting with the kids that have nowhere ... They're not going anywhere, right? So they're always looking for the kids that are maybe a little more put together, trying to get at them and, you know, this constant conflict and all this kind of stuff. And you know, I'm, I'm just looking at it going, you know, "I gotta get out." And the, and the, and all the hardship from that, right?

The, the getting beat up, the, the riding the bus and kids pinning you in the back and having to fight your way out and, you know, school shit and, and, and all this like, I don't want my kids ... Like, there's a part of me that doesn't want my kids in any way to have to go through that shit. And again, I live in the suburbs now too, so it's- ... you know, the world, like it's not even as much a possibility. I mean, they go to Catholic school for Christ's sake. So they, you know, that all being said, there's also a part of me that says when my first company didn't work and I had to restart, when I got fired from a job that I absolutely, absolutely adored, and it was my fault, I, I, I had to come back from like, like I have, I've built this resilience in my life that allows me, for whatever reason, to keep coming back, and a lot of that is because I learned I freaking had to.

Like, like you said, and you've written about, and I think it's phenomenal, like nobody is coming to save you. Now, unfortunately for kids that grow up in the suburbs, and this is the, this is the part that I, I so relate to what you're going through, when you grow up in the suburbs and everything's safe, and you have money to pay for shit, there is always someone coming to save these kids. Yeah. And, and, and when they, when they, and this is the part that scares me, is like once they get thrown out into the world, that no longer is true. That's no longer true.

And, and they're gonna have to dissect good idea, bad idea, good opportunity, bad opportunity. Do I keep going or do I quit? You know, like d- you know, am I, can I be confident? Can I be my own person? Can I stand on my own two feet?

Can I manifest whatever, you know, whatever ideas or goals I have in my life? And, and that comes from getting the sh- the shit kicked out of you, not always physically, but, but having bad things happen. Like bad things have to happen to you to go through the experience of generating the skills to, to, to, to come back from that. And I feel like today, because we've created such safe environments, and this goes for, for organizations as well, I mean, look at all these organizations that are killing their, their DEI programs and killing all these safety net programs, right? Now, granted, I understand why those exist, because there are racist fuckheads out there that will- Yeah ... that will make bad decisions.

But again, here's my thing. I've, I've never, I've never understood racism, m- and some of it is maybe just because like I played sports and there were brown and purple and yellow and white and tall and fat, and we didn't give a shit as long as you were all pointing the same direction. So maybe that's some of that. But also, like if you go back to this living in reality concept, like DEI doesn't work because not everyone is equal, right? Right.

Racism also doesn't work 'cause that doesn't allow you to capture the best and bring them into your organization. So it's like I get this move, but I f- and, and I'm super interested in this in your take 'cause you're, 'cause you're a Black dude, right? Like I had a buddy of mine, a good friend, uh, actually big, big podcaster, um, as well, and, and he's a Black guy, and we were talking a little bit about this, and I was like, "Dude, I, I felt..." And again, I'm a white dude. I'm six foot four.

I, you know, I, it is not a lot of like racist shit coming at me, you know what I mean? So I understand- Yeah. ... and I, I've never really lived that. You know, like I, I was fat when I was younger, so I kind of understand being singled out for the way you look, but completely different. I'm not even gonna try to relate that. I understand a little.

But you know, in the, in the '90s and early 2000s, I felt like culturally like not that we had it figured out, figured out, but like kind of it wasn't, like it isn't, like- It wasn't ... it feels like we've taken a big swing back. Like, like yeah, there were, yeah, there were some racist assholes, but we all kind of like when we found them, we kind of like carved them out and pushed them to the side. Yeah. It w- it was like, it was like, "Oh, you're racist. What's wrong with you?"

Like kind of deal. It, it, it, yes. But I feel like we've now like swung back to all of a sudden it's like I look around and I'm like, like because I'm a white dude, I'm like racist now? I don't, I don't understand that. Like, I don't even ...

Like I, I guess I just like do you feel like we've swung back? Do you think that's just a narrative that have been placed upon us? Like- Here, here's my thought process about, about all of this, on, on the racism side of it. You, you gotta accept an uncomfortable truth, and once you accept that, then you can deal with it. It's like everything.

Once you accept reality, you can do it. And the uncomfortable truth is, uh, there, there are really two here. One- There will always be someone who is racist. Uh, uh, and, and when I say racist, I wanna be very specific. There will always be someone who makes their decisions solely based on race, or makes an important decision that affects other people, and they will consider race over merit, or any inequality over merit, right?

You... There's the first one. The second one you gotta accept is that that's kind of our nature. That doesn't mean it's, it should be tolerated or accepted, but that's just wh- we, we have an in-group preference. And not only that, but that combines with how our brains try to take shortcuts.

Oh, man, the, you know, f- the four to five last guys who beat my ass were Black, therefore there's something wrong with Black people, right? That's kinda how our brains work. That, that's a simple example, but you, you get how that extends to, like, all things. Once you accept those two things, then you can formulate a strategy to deal with it. And you can do a few things, um, some of which work.

Like we were talking about DEI, I have, I have been relatively vocal. I would not put this in the category of hill I will die on, but it's probably a hill I'd fight on for a little while, um, that, that I think DEI has done more harm than good. Now, before I say why, let me jump back and make sure to anybody listening this is very clear. There was very much time in our country where we absolutely needed concepts like affirmative action. I, I, I need people to understand that.

But this is a lot like that, um, that stat about women earn less than men. Once we move past it, we have to update, or we end up pissing the other side off and swinging back. And this is why, this actually leads nicely, it was not intentional, what my issue with a lot of, not all, but a lot of, uh, DEI is. People do not appreciate, like you were saying just now, you didn't even realize it maybe, that even the, in some of the language chosen, like, "I'm a white guy, I'm racist." People don't realize that when you, when you decide to single out a group, specifically to bolster them, okay, I think a lot of people have no problem with that initially.

But when the stats start looking different and people's lived experiences start looking different than what you're supposedly battling against, and you start to go on the offensive... You know, I never forget time somebody started talking about anti-racism to me. I was like, "Bro, isn't that just, like, not being racist?" Like no, no, no, you gotta... What you do is you fester resentment in the people who are supposed to, like...

Well, they're not supposed to do anything really. But, but when, when you tell them, I guess, when you tell them we're doing this to, to make things more equal, I don't think people have a problem with that when you s- when you dress it up in that good language. But when you start to actively exclude them, well, what you're doing is racism. Now, no one calls it racism, or at least not at the, the, uh, institutional level, but it is in the purest sense. Like, when you start to exclude based on race, but for a different reason.

This is only for Black people. Okay, some things we did need at some point, but if we start saying that we're gonna make our mission based on race, uh, when, when, when merit is the only thing done, well now we're, we're assuming that, you know, you, that, that the white guy was less qualified or whatever. This was, like, the whole problem with affirmative action, uh, at one point, is that people started to feel like merit was being given second place for race. When things get out of hand, I think we need to step in and correct. I think that's one of the things, one of the functions the government should do.

And sometimes, I, and I won't even say sometimes, I actually think they've, they've done a, a, a great job of legislating away a lot of things that could've contributed to systemic racism, and it takes some generations or a generation to trickle down. In particular, I'm talking about the Warren Court, the, the Warren Supreme Court, and a lot of rulings they made that have fundamentally shaped the way the country looks now. I really believe that. With that said, now, uh, there comes a point where you have to let people be people. And you ha- And when I say that, you have to hope that all the changes you've made and all the progress you've made sticks, and that the cultural attitude is different now.

And if people step out of line, you have to st- push them back in line viciously. But when you start to mandate that people need to behave a certain way, and your language is also racist, like if you just swap out Black with white, you know, or, or white with Black in some cases, you know, no matter what, it- it's still just as racist. But they go, "No, they're the majority, they can, can't be racist." And I'm like, "No, it's still racism." Uh, then you have a problem.

So, so I've had this discussion with, mainly with people who disagree, and, and those are the people you should have discussions with if you're trying to sharpen your thought process. A- a- and I will fully admit, I've, I've become a bit more refined about it over time, but my general point still stands that after some point, if you want the progress to continue, you have to have faith in people to uphold it. When you start to come in with the heavy hand of bureaucracy, um, and there's no reason to- Now maybe there were, maybe there was a reason. May, maybe all of a sudden, you know, people were being discriminated against. But it's also just as likely, uh, that for whatever reason, back to the opportunity thing we were talking about, the people who would, were getting the opportunities to develop the skillsets, they were being denied that, or they didn't have a- or I won't even say being denied, they weren't given access to it.

So I, I think it- it's a complex problem, but the simple handed s- the, the, the simple heavy-handed solution of mandating quotas, that if there's one thing that ba- uh, that like... I- I don't think it's like basic economics. We'll, we'll say like Economics 201, 202 teaches is that when you, when you mandate things and don't let the market adjust on its own, you end up with either, or you usually end up with a, a shortage. You rarely do end up with a surplus, at least not a positive one. And I think the same thing applies to cultural ideas, uh, in particular how we treat people.

If you want to, people to treat each other well and you mandate it, you're going to end up with less people treating each other well if for no other reason than there's no... It's subjective. There's, there's no objective measure, and it leaves open a lot of, oh, it, it leaves open a lot of ways for people to, to overtly take advantage. And then covertly, that resentment builds. I'm, I'm well aware of this.

I don't, and I don't know why, and I seem to be one of the only people who, who, who has thought about it this way, at least when I see a lot of the, the pushback. So may, so maybe I'm completely wrong on this, but I 100% believe that if you continue to make white guys feel like there's something wrong with them for being white, you're gonna see the same thing happen with, with white people that you see with white men or, or men in general telling them that there's something wrong with them for being men. We've seen the rise of, of the red pill and the man-o-sphere, and a lot of the more, and I hate, I, I won't even use the word, the more destructive influences, um, that have taken advantage of the malaise of young men because they're being told something's wrong with them and, and, and women have all these advantages, and the, the numbers don't paint that picture at all. And so they don't feel like anyone understands them, so they get driven into, they get driven into your favorite, your favorite masculine influencer who is just spouting a lot of maybe some good things, but, but laced under that is this vein of hate and, and not self- self-development. And on top of that, he's profiting heavily from it.

Yeah. You end up, you, you end up with the exact same thing. That story I told you earlier about the kid who ended up in the, uh, the white supremacy forums, you, you'll do the same thing. And, uh, and people are like, "Oh, bring it out in public so we can see it." Like, do you understand how the internet works?

Like that's not, that ain't how it works anymore. The rules have changed. People, they're not updating their software. All of that to say, in general, I think a lot of the DEI mandates will do more harm than good. And it won't be immediate, it will be long-term, and by the time we finally start to see it, uh, we'll be like, "Oh, I don't know why all of a sudden, uh, 50% of Americans think that, you know, Black should have their own city.

I have no idea why they think that." Well, well, it took 20, 30, 40 years, but sure enough. Just like it took tw- when did Loving versus Virginia? '67, right? Are you familiar with that, that case, right, where it was legal? They, the Supreme Court finally said, "Yo, interracial marriage is okay."

Like, like, uh, 'cause some, some states said that it was cool, some hadn't, but it wasn't federal. And the Supreme Court hops in and goes, "All right, this is straight." That was '67. Now, if you say something to somebody about being in an interracial relationship, they, they're like, "What?" It's like, "Whoa, you're racist.

What's wrong with you?" But, but how long did that take? I remember when I was in high school dating white girls, and I was getting looks or someone would say something if the girl was white. So 20 years ago. So, so, so '67, '90, well, I was in high school in the 2000s, so we got another 30 years, and now it's like an accepted attitude.

No one bats an eye. Now, now obviously you got some guys who, you know, are some people who have their preference, and there ain't nothing wrong with your preference. But in terms of like an outright vitriol towards the, the concept of interracial marriages or being, or them being shown in the media, um, that, that's gone. It, it, it's, it's almost a re- well, almost a complete relic of the past, and you gotta let that happen. But the other thing can happen just, just on just the same timeframe, a negative attitude, and that's how we'll regress.

But the other- Yeah. I, I, I look at this stuff and I'm like, there should be one filter: American, not American. Right. Right? Well, that's what we had.

Uh, well, w- when was the country the most united? And this is on a, on a philosophical idea I guess, or psychol- psychological. Weren't we like most united recently than after the 9/11 attacks? Because it was no longer we're, we're targeting Blacks, whites. No, it was they attacked us in a vicious, vicious, public, obvious way.

Um, and, and that's, that's an unfortunate quirk of human psychology. With, with, uh, w- people unite much more easily around a common enemy than a common ally, and, and I wish it wasn't that way, uh, but it is. You know, you, you wanna see world peace, world peace will happen when the aliens invade. Totally agree. Agree with that.

I agree. Hey, with all the crazy shit that's been coming out lately, that might, that might be happening sooner rather than later. Um- Oh, man. You know, just as, just as a, a side note, I mean, my background, I went to school for physics. Let me tell you something Uh, i- if a, if a, if an alien species makes contact, whatever, they, they have the technology, there ain't shit we can do.

Yeah. I mean, like, w- i- it's, it's... I saw one guy write about it, it'd be like when you find an anthill. Well, you might not even find an anthill. You might just step over it and squash it, not even realize it was there.

That's like, like the- Yeah ... the level of technological difference required, 'cause we can't, we can- shit, it takes us, takes us six months to get to Mars at this point. Yeah, yeah. Um, I, I, I, I'll leave you with this. There's this, there's this clip that I found on Instagram, and it's this guy from Eastern Europe, and he, he starts the clip with this, this yahoo dude from, I'm assuming, the Midwest in the country, and he's rigged out his, uh, his, I think it's a Charger. It may be a Mustang.

Uh, a, a, a, a, a sports car, um, with... And he's running it off of two, um, outboard motorboat engines, and this thing's, you know, and he's got the American flag coming out the back and, you know, he's bombing this thing around, whatever. And this European dude, you know, and he's got the accent and he, you know, and he's kind of broken English, and he goes, "This is what Americans do when they're bored on a Saturday." He goes, he goes, "I don't, I don't know that it's the best idea to fuck with these people." And I was like, this is the beauty.

Like, why don't we embrace this? Like, people look at that and they go, "Ah, he's some country bumpkin," you know, whatever. And I'm like, he put two outboard, 400 horsepower outboard engines where the engine of his car should have been, and he's bombing around in an old Mustang. Like- ... that's fucking amazing. Like, that's who we are.

We are innovators. We're, we're ambitious and, and, and driven and, and crazy. I mean, Americans are cra- And I'm hoping for a day when we can get and fully embrace the full spectrum of just bananas shit that we can come up with because of the diversity, the, the, the, the experiences, the education, the communication, the... You know what I mean? Like, that's the stuff that I'm hoping someday we can grab onto because it's just not possible anywhere else.

Yeah. Like, that's what I feel like so many people in the States have lost sight of, is, is there's a level of entitlement that I just simply, I, I, I, I, I can't even tolerate it. Like, we hit, I don't care where you were born and what shitty ass situation you were born into, by being born in this country right now, you hit- You hit- ... the birth freaking jackpot. You know- Because you're, you born in that shitty situation in any other country, you're fucked, right? My, my most popular video on my YouTube channel is, is what, what growing up in the projects taught me about why people stay poor, and I start that out saying that I grew up as poor as you can grow up in America.

I was very clear, uh, because, you know, I, I, and then I go on to talk about going through, through, um, Puerto Plata in the Dominican Republic and seeing, like, houses with a... There, there are no floors. It's just mud, and whenever it rains, it washes away. And then seeing the shanty towns outside of Mexico City and stuff like that. I lived in Portugal for a while and, and that's a, a, that's a pretty nice country, but there's still places, like when you're poor, you're really, really poor.

And, and it's, it's a very different kind of opportunity we have here. Uh, and, and we got a, there's a lot of support. You know, if you have kids in this country and you don't have health insurance, you can automatically... We got CH- at least in PA, we call it CHIP. I don't know what it is in New York.

But it's, uh, your kid gets healthcare. Like, we're, we're, we have a lot of opportunity here. We have a surplus. It's, it's easy to... If you hustle, you can do anything, and I'm not talking about that old pull your bootstrap up deal.

But like, you know, you can make... You, you can go find any job if you're healthy, right? If you're not healthy, that's a different issue, but if you're healthy, you know, you, you ain't never out the game. Um, there's always something you can do, even with just manual labor, and there's, there's so many opportunities. And, and back to your, your point about the equality of opportunity versus...

I always say outcome versus opportunity. Um, and, and I think a lot of the postmodern liberalism and then, and which, which gets its roots from a lot of the Marx and stuff, uh, they, they focus on the equality of outcome. And you can't do that because then you disincentivize people to go through the process to take opportunities. But we have so, there's so much opportunity here. People still, even with the craziness that the media portrays of our country, people still wanna come here, and I know this.

This isn't me speculating and just spouting off numbers or spouting off, like, talking points from the media. My wife was the assistant director of, uh, f- international admissions at, at, uh, at Duquesne University here in Pit- in Pittsburgh, and so I know they, the, the Chinese, Saudis, Central America, they're sending their kids here if they have the money. And they're not even a big... I mean, D- Duquesne's is not a big school, but it's, it's an expensive school. And so I know that this is still a place people wanna come to and people wanna be, and we don't appreciate that a lot, I think.

See, let's put it like this. I was one of those guys for a while. I was like, "Oh man, I can't wait to get out the country," you know, dude, and then, and get away from America. This was me at one point. And then I, I spent a lot, especially over the last 10 years, I spent a lot of time out of the country, lived in another country.

And I'm just like, you know, America is great. Like, like there's, there's just no other way around it. Oh, it's, it's got its problems. No one, no one is gonna say America doesn't have its problems. But what you have to accept, and back to this reality thing, what you gotta accept is that you're gonna have problems everywhere.

How big are those problems versus the opportunities? When you start doing it that way, because look, it's r- it's easy to be excited about anything when you focus only on the upside. Super easy. It's when you start comparing the downside, you, you go, "Okay, well, is ... Do I want..."

For ex- This is so funny to me. No disrespect to anybody living in Portugal, 'cause for the most part it is a great, clean, efficient... Well actually, efficient's probably a bit of a strong word. But it's a great country. But we lived in a suburb of Lisbon, and this is Lisbon, man.

This is the biggest, this the capital and it's a suburb. It's a great pl- it was dog shit everywhere, on the flo- on the, on the, on the sidewalk. And I was just like, "Huh." Eh, that's just what people do. And I asked my wife, 'cause my wife's Portuguese.

I'm like, "What is this?" She's like, "That's just how it goes." I'm like, "Okay." Compare that to like here, you know, somebody'll kick your ass if you like- Yeah. ... let your dog shit and don't pick it up. Like, like people police that stuff.

It's just, that's it. But, but on the flip side, look, I got real sick over there once. I had to go to the hospital in the ER, whole nine. I got... And then we go to check out the hospital and they give us the bill.

They don't mail it to us, they give us the bill. It's $125 for an ER visit. 125 euros. Yeah. There, there's your trade-off.

I mean- Yeah ... it's, i- it- it's what, what, what do you, um, accept? With that said, you know, the hospital, we, um, we had not had to go to a hospital before, and so we, we kind of picked one, uh, out of a hat. There were two and, and we chose the one, turns out we chose the public hospital, uh, not the private one. And the public hospital, that, that was an experience. To be...

I, I could dive into that. But look, let's just, let's just say in America, um, our hospitals are a lot closer to hotels. I would... I didn't realize that. I thought that was just normal until I went to a hospital in another country.

You don't wanna stay. You, you know, y- you're not gonna die, they gonna take care of you, but you're not like, "Let me get some food in the cafeteria." What cafeteria? Hey, dude, this has been a tremendous conversation. Uh, the book is Hard Lessons, um, From The Hurt Business, uh, coming out right around this episode.

I'm gonna drop it on the day. So guys, today, today the book is live on Amazon. We're gonna have links. Scroll down. Whether you're watching on YouTube, listening wherever, scroll down or just go to Amazon.

Highly recommend. I purposely stayed away from the book in our conversation 'cause I wanted people to see all the other sides of you so that they, when they get to this book, they know exactly what they're getting, the type of guy- ... behind the li- what you're teaching. Dude, I think the world of your work. I said at the beginning, I've been a fan for a long time, ever since I heard you on James Altucher, and it's been such a pleasure to spend time with you today, my friend. Hey, I appreciate that, man.

And you know what? I, because I have no idea what, like, other podcasts hosts and guests do, but, but you're, you're probably one of the first guy, if not the first guy who was like, "We stayed away from the book." 'Cause I, I'm sitting here like halfway through going, "You gonna talk about the book at all?" But then I was like, "Okay, this is a good strategy." You know? I don't, I don't...

Logic, the, the white rapper, Logic, he's got this song, 44 Bars, and he says, "This week is looking crazy due to high demand, 'cause people in this day and age don't buy music, they buy the brand." And he's talking about him. Like, the songs are great, but it's him that moves everything. Zuby's got a very similar concept, too. I'm talking to him about how he's sold his independent music.

It's like me, the music is an extension. So, so, you know, just it's cool that you recognize that. Uh, well, hey, man, I, I, I just, I could talk to you for another two hours, but I wanna be respectful of your time and of the audience's. Um, besides getting the book, if people wanna get deeper into your world, what's the best way to do that? Uh, you know, before I would say follow me on Twitter, man, but I've been blowing up on YouTube.

I'm, I'm really having a good time over there. Yeah. Um, and yeah, b- because I'm, I'm Ed Latimore everywhere. Gotcha. Ed Latimore on, on Instagram, on Twitter.

My website is edlatimore.com. And my YouTube, you know, you, you'll type in YouTube Ed Latimore, but I had to get Ed Latimore One, some weirdo took it, uh, before I could. So, uh, yeah. Well, but that's how you find me, man. R- really, I, I hate to say it 'cause it sounds so self-important, but, but just Google, uh, and I'll pop up.

No, I, I'll leave you with this. Um, so there are about seven other adult Ryan Hanleys around my age in the world, and I have gotten messages from the other six. They all started as hate messages at first, like, "I can't get on the first page of Google," for whatever their thing was, 'cause I just, like, took over. You know? So if you Google Ryan Hanley- ...

I'm basically all, or, you know, I don't, Google search doesn't look the same now, but I was like all 10 for years and years. And then they all finally started t- going, "Hey, man, like, how do I do this thing where I can get on there, too? Like, what are you do..." Like, it was funny. And I've, like, made friends with a couple of them now.

Like the other Ryan Hanleys, you know what I mean? 'Cause I can't get found. But it's, uh, it's a, it's a dog eat dog game for, for that Google search space, so, uh, more power to you for getting it. Dude, keep doing you. I appreciate you so much. You got an open invitation to come back anytime you want.

I know the book's gonna be a huge success, uh, and I know the audience is gonna love it, so thank you for your time today. What if I told you that your biggest breakthrough is waiting on the other side of your biggest breakdown? What if the very thing you're afraid of, losing control, facing uncertainty, getting knocked down, is exactly what you need to discover who you're really meant to be? This podcast is for unreasonable people seeking unreasonable results. If you're tired of playing small, if you're frustrated with where you are versus where you know you should be, if you're ready to stop making excuses and start making moves, then you're in the right place.

My name is Ryan Hanley, and after getting fired from my third executive position, I finally realized something: God did not create me to work for someone else. That's when I founded Rogue Risk, bootstrapped it from the ground up, and sold it for seven figures in less than four years. This is also when I developed the Reality OS framework, a leadership methodology that helps entrepreneurs find their signal in a world of noise. Whether you're stuck in revenue growth, struggling with leadership, or simply know you're capable of more but can't figure out how to get there, this show will give you the clarity, tools, and inspiration you need to break through to the next level. So subscribe to The Ryan Hanley Show wherever you listen to podcasts.

And if you wanna go deeper down the rabbit hole, visit findingpeak.com to join our community of leaders who refuse to accept ordinary results. This is the way. Happy holidays. Want to give your host a gift? Consider subscribing, rating, and reviewing the show this holiday season.

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